Morning, muchachos. From the Left Coast.
I don't expect anyone to agree with me politically. I've engaged in some long exchanges with Golfin' Dave and Travellin' Dave about politics, but I try not to be combative. I try not to be an asshole. And as much as I support Trumpf, I do acknowledge that he's frequently an asshole. I acknowledge this.
But I'd really like to discuss why Golfin' Dave, and Travellin' Dave, and Tony, think this country will be better off under Biden. I don't. And it's not like I'm a rich guy. I expect all of you make more money than me. I mean, I try to be good at math. But what am I missing here?
Could we have this discussion, with civility? I know that others here have strong opinions about this, but disregarding that for now, could we have the discussion? I'd really like to know what it is you think I'm missing. Is it the guns? Is it immigration? What is it that makes you think we're going to be better off under Biden?
I dunno, maybe we can't have the conversation. Politics isn't what we're here for. But I'd like to try. I really want to know why I see things so differently than some here do.
Good day Raz (when you wake up). Big part of the unfortunate state of affairs is that you have to apologize for trying to bring up what should be an interesting discussion.
I'm a lifelong Republican, have had a strong dislike for many of the Democrat platforms going back to Vietnam and the political upheaval then. I've never voted straight ticket however, but go with individuals I prefer.
Specifically to the Trump issue, I like you, can't understand how friends, family and lots of people I respect CAN vote for Trump. I feel the terrible divisiveness, disrespect and polarization is a direct result of Trump example and practice. In my view, he's a despicable excuse for a human being. I don't know of anyone who voted for him would want their children, spouses or friends to be like him, so how is it OK to be the leader of my country? I also don't understand how people see him as anything but a fraud. He's a pathological liar, and when he's not , he just makes shit up. He's a business failure, only surviving by being spotted a lot of seed money and by gaming the system all along the way. How many bankruptcies? 6? I believe we have to have allies in the world and with that comes give and take, not abuse and bullying. You have kids, what would they be like if raised in an environment of criticism and belittlement never having a say in their lives? When it comes to friends, sucking up to dictators and all but in name communists. Where is the Republican distain for Socialisms cousin Communism (not that that wasn't over the top in its time). I don't understand how you can run a government when you fire all with different opinions and surround yourself with synchopants demanding blind loyalty. How can you lead when you never recognize others contributors and that others know more about some things than you do, not all about ME, ME, ME. I also am very distressed as to the damage he has done to the Republican party as a balance to the Democrats. He has chased out many moderates and Trump clones have risen to the forfront. Ultimately, it comes down to personality and decency.
Guess that's it in a nutshell.
It's interesting that everyone goes right to Trump, when I said little about Trump except that I supported his candidacy. My question was why y'all think America will be better under Biden, and there was no implication intended of adding the clause "than under Trump."
But you did identify exactly where the political disconnect between us really is. It's right here:
"I don't know of anyone who voted for him would want their children, spouses or friends to be like him, so how is it OK to be the leader of my country?"
I don't share the belief implied here, the notion that the president can and should embody our noblest ideals of gravitas, fraternity and bonhomie, and articulate a bold legislative agenda. It's a noble idea, and it's as old as civilization. I just have zero interest in it.
I think the notion of voting for the best man for the job, regardless of party or platform is itself an expression of authoritarianism rooted in the ancient and primitive idea that the head of state embodies the state. People look at history and wonder how Germany ended up with Hitler. I submit this is why - the German people felt he was the best man for the job, regardless of party or platform. It's that disregard of party and platform that's the real problem. Party and platform are the only way to hold our elected officials accountable without devolving into populism, which according to history inevitably leads to authoritarianism.
I think our country is walking a primrose path to an authoritarian state. It was on that path long before Donald Trump, and Joe Biden is just the next link in a long chain. Same shit, different day.
But don't worry, Tony, I won't pursue this any further. TD and y'all have confirmed my suspicion as to where the disconnect is. Y'all share an ideal I don't, and of which I'm profoundly skeptical at best. Call it the ideal of the Noble Leader.
One issue I didn't touch on was economy. I generally feel the economy is a much more complex system than people think and is far much more than just the stock market. It responds much more slowly and rarely directly to any specific political action. More often than not, presidents get credit for upturns (or downturns) initiated long before they were in office. I don't believe the tax cut has done much to stimulate the economy outside of an uptick in the DOW for a about a month. As Trump clearly isn't responsible to the economic devastation caused by RONA, he has done little to support the recovery. The stimulus package from Congress has helped but was only begrudgingly signed by the President. While European and Asian tariffs have been stupidly accepted for many years, adding more tariffs from our side is not the answer. It has only served to negatively impact domestic manufacturers and consumers. NAFTA while not great was not significantly changed by Trump. While I am very much against the Democrat approach of just throwing money and adding bureaucracy to address many social issues, some safety nets are needed. Jobs programs addressing infrastructure are value added IMHO. Trumps thought to defer personal taxes (that pay for social security and medicare) is a disaster. So I don't see any economic plan from Trump and unfortunately the lockstep Republicans.
But with all of that, you are correct, I am less voting for Biden than against Trump.
