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[FloridaDean]

hottub being drained and cleaned. sheesh. glad I don't have a pool.

[bluecollar]

Morning, muchachos.  From the Left Coast. 

I don't expect anyone to agree with me politically.  I've engaged in some long exchanges with Golfin' Dave and Travellin' Dave about politics, but I try not to be combative.  I try not to be an asshole.  And as much as I support Trumpf, I do acknowledge that he's frequently an asshole.  I acknowledge this.

But I'd really like to discuss why Golfin' Dave, and Travellin' Dave, and Tony, think this country will be better off under Biden.  I don't.  And it's not like I'm a rich guy.  I expect all of you make more money than me.  I mean, I try to be good at math.  But what am I missing here? 

Could we have this discussion, with civility?  I know that others here have strong opinions about this, but disregarding that for now, could we have the discussion?  I'd really like to know what it is you think I'm missing.  Is it the guns?  Is it immigration?  What is it that makes you think we're going to be better off under Biden?

I dunno, maybe we can't have the conversation. Politics isn't what we're here for.   But I'd like to try.  I really want to know why I see things so differently than some here do.

Good day Raz (when you wake up).  Big part of the unfortunate state of affairs is that you have to apologize for trying to bring up what should be an interesting discussion.

I'm a lifelong Republican, have had a strong dislike for many of the Democrat platforms going back to Vietnam and the political upheaval then.  I've never voted straight ticket however, but go with individuals I prefer. 

Specifically to the Trump issue, I like you, can't understand how friends, family and lots of people I respect CAN vote for Trump.  I feel the terrible divisiveness, disrespect and polarization is a direct result of Trump example and practice.  In my view, he's a despicable excuse for a human being.  I don't know of anyone who voted for him would want their children, spouses or friends to be like him, so how is it OK to be the leader of my country?  I also don't understand how people see him as anything but a fraud.  He's a pathological liar, and when he's not , he just makes shit up.  He's a business failure, only surviving by being spotted a lot of seed money and by gaming the system all along the way.  How many bankruptcies? 6?  I believe we have to have allies in the world and with that comes give and take, not abuse and bullying.  You have kids, what would they be like if raised in an environment of criticism and belittlement never having a say in their lives?  When it comes to friends, sucking up to dictators and all but in name communists.  Where is the Republican distain for Socialisms cousin Communism (not that that wasn't over the top in its time).  I don't understand how you can run a government when you fire all with different opinions and surround yourself with synchopants demanding blind loyalty.   How can you lead when you never recognize others contributors and that others know more about some things than you do, not all about ME, ME, ME.  I also am very distressed as to the damage he has done to the Republican party as a balance to the Democrats.  He has chased out many moderates and Trump clones have risen to the forfront.  Ultimately, it comes down to personality and decency.

Guess that's it in a nutshell.

It's interesting that everyone goes right to Trump, when I said little about Trump except that I supported his candidacy.  My question was why y'all think America will be better under Biden, and there was no implication intended of adding the clause "than under Trump." 

But you did identify exactly where the political disconnect between us really is.  It's right here:

"I don't know of anyone who voted for him would want their children, spouses or friends to be like him, so how is it OK to be the leader of my country?"

I don't share the belief implied here, the notion that the president can and should embody our noblest ideals of gravitas, fraternity and bonhomie, and articulate a bold legislative agenda.  It's a noble idea, and it's as old as civilization.  I just have zero interest in it.

I think the notion of voting for the best man for the job, regardless of party or platform is itself an expression of authoritarianism rooted in the ancient and primitive idea that the head of state embodies the state. People look at history and wonder how Germany ended up with Hitler.  I submit this is why - the German people felt he was the best man for the job, regardless of party or platform.  It's that disregard of party and platform that's the real problem.  Party and platform are the only way to hold our elected officials accountable without devolving into populism, which according to history inevitably leads to authoritarianism.

I think our country is walking a primrose path to an authoritarian state.  It was on that path long before Donald Trump, and Joe Biden is just the next link in a long chain.  Same shit, different day. 

But don't worry, Tony, I won't pursue this any further.  TD and y'all have confirmed my suspicion as to where the disconnect is.  Y'all share an ideal I don't, and of which I'm profoundly skeptical at best.  Call it the ideal of the Noble Leader.

I wasn't worried, Bret. We don't have to agree on this one. Just acknowledge that "celos on" is the better way to store cigars and you'll be allowed to continue bantering here.

Oh geeze

[Travellin Dave]

Friday afternoon.

[Travellin Dave]

Friday afternoon.

[FloridaDean]

Friday afternoon.

I'm jealous.

[bluecollar]

Spent all morning trying to get blood work for routine well visit. Sheesh!

[LuvTooGolf]

Friday afternoon.

I'm jealous.

+1

[Travellin Dave]

Good morning, NoCigarDealers.  Add my one red light to the pile. If we can avoid the guy with the vintage goalie mask and chainsaw we'll be good.

why don't we take the car that's running?

morning Mark.

That commercial was funny the first time I saw it. It's always running though.

Indeed.  There are some funny ones.  But I do wish that douchebag with his emu sidekick would go away.  Those are not good.

Agree it's time to deep fry that emu.

[Travellin Dave]

had to go shopping for cheesecake makings. requested dessert by the widow. even bought a frozen back up cheesecake in case I f*ck up.

I just cut out all those steps and buy a well made cheesecake.

[FloridaDean]

had to go shopping for cheesecake makings. requested dessert by the widow. even bought a frozen back up cheesecake in case I f*ck up.

I just cut out all those steps and buy a well made cheesecake.

the well made cheesecake is the back up.

[LuvTooGolf]

had to go shopping for cheesecake makings. requested dessert by the widow. even bought a frozen back up cheesecake in case I f*ck up.

I just cut out all those steps and buy a well made cheesecake.

I'm with you, just go right for the good one, skip the hassle.

[LuvTooGolf]

Hazzuh, emu haters!

[A Friend of Charlie]

had to go shopping for cheesecake makings. requested dessert by the widow. even bought a frozen back up cheesecake in case I f*ck up.

I just cut out all those steps and buy a well made cheesecake.

the well made cheesecake is the back up.

+1

[Threebean]

Following ClemsonDave's lead, an acronym cigar from the TABSA sampler.

[Threebean]

had to go shopping for cheesecake makings. requested dessert by the widow. even bought a frozen back up cheesecake in case I f*ck up.

I just cut out all those steps and buy a well made cheesecake.

That won't make the impression on the widow which Dean is going for.  And if he f'ks it up, the fact he was thoughtful enough to have a backup will seal the deal. C'mon, man!