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Author Topic: 11/3/2020  (Read 5100 times)

razgueado

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Re: 11/3/2020
« Reply #135 on: November 03, 2020, 06:50:54 PM »

We may got from 4 years of Russia Russia Russia to 4 years of Hunter Hunter Hunter. Or 4 more years of Russia Russia Russia. Depending on what the media company's think will sell best.
What's clear is that 2024 is already shaping up to be potentially worse than this one, I think. Will we be voting for Ivanka? Biden again? Kamala? Someone in these parts already has a giant JIM JORDAN 2024 sign under their equally overcompensatingly huge Drumpf sign. I'm already exhausted for future me.
Maybe you should spend less time telling us *who's* bad, and try and persuade us of your vision of what the world should look in the future, and how you think is the best way to achieve it.  Just a thought.
I'd like to think that were an option, but I sincerely doubt the chance of anyone here having their mind changed through discussion, myself included. I'll stick to snarky comments and thinking about sammitches, thanks.
And this is the problem with this country and this election.  Everybody wants to play identity politics.  It's easier.  No one wants to get down to the real dividing issues, because those are no fun.  It's so much fun to demand stimulus and reparations and free healthcare, and when asked "how do you propose we pay for it?" to shout "Racism!" "You hate the poor!"  "You're a libtard!"  "You're a Nazi!"  "Kill Mitch!" That's easy.

But it's true, trying to persuade me to accept a tax increase would be really, really hard.  Just about as hard as trying to convince a Democrat to accept spending cuts. 

Still, this is how deals are made.  You can get me to give up short term profit for long term profit.  That's how it's done.  But you have to convince me what the long term gain is for me.
Well said Bret. I actually think that Ohio will pay one of the biggest prices if Biden is elected. Raising corporate taxes may be the easiest cop-out and will ruin a vibrant economy. America is built on big business
But economy was doing just fine before the big tax cut.  If Trumpf hadn't bungled the economy with his random tariffs and new trade deals that are not much different from the old trade deals, the economy would have been even better during his term.  "Raising Corporate Taxes" is putting them back where they were (with a little extra for all the freebies they got from Trumpf)
There is also no proof that raising the minimum wage will do anything to increase unemployment, put small businesses out of business etc.  If anything, business has improved in cities and states where this has been implemented.
Sure as hell didn't improve things in Seattle.
Did it make it worse?
Define worse?  A lot of people lost their jobs.  I suppose those who didn't lose their jobs would consider it better.
Can you define "a lot"? Because everything I'm reading indicates an increase in the number of jobs at the bottom of the wage floor, which is exactly what proponents of increasing the minimum are hoping for.
A UW study in 2017 indicated 5,000 fewer low-wage jobs than there would have been otherwise, and the average overall pay went down $125 due to work hours being cut. Now, from 2017-2019, that was mitigated by the growth of the Trump economy. True enough. Consumers were willing to spend more, so the bleeding was mitigated. But in an economic downturn, those jobs and the businesses that provide them are toast. And it will take a major recovery to get back to that.

The notion that increasing minimum wage will cause a net increase in jobs is only viable in a very hot economy where consumers will spend more - in other words, it's a trickle-down theory. Increase earnings at the upper end of the scale and it will filter down to tolerance of the higher prices that will allow job expansion at the lower end. If earnings at the upper end sneeze, the lower end dies of pneumonia.

In addition, recoveries are driven by smaller businesses, much more vulnerable to labor costs. So if fewer of those companies go into action, because they can't afford the costs, then recoveries don't happen as quickly.
Perhaps $15 is too high for the market to bear, but to have a minimum wage that hasn't increased in 11 years and counting is unconscionable. Other than new technology, not a whole lot of things haven't increased in price in that timeframe.
Weren't Obama/Biden in office for the majority of that time? Congrats on the cigars
You're right about that. My guess is they were too busy fighting to give people healthcare to deal with it.
Fighting?  They rammed that absurdity through on greased rails.  They nuked cloture requirements, silencing the filibuster.  Course, it made them mad when Mitch did the same thing for judges.  But hey, that's politics. 
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LuvTooGolf

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Re: 11/3/2020
« Reply #136 on: November 03, 2020, 07:07:40 PM »

We may got from 4 years of Russia Russia Russia to 4 years of Hunter Hunter Hunter. Or 4 more years of Russia Russia Russia. Depending on what the media company's think will sell best.
What's clear is that 2024 is already shaping up to be potentially worse than this one, I think. Will we be voting for Ivanka? Biden again? Kamala? Someone in these parts already has a giant JIM JORDAN 2024 sign under their equally overcompensatingly huge Drumpf sign. I'm already exhausted for future me.
Maybe you should spend less time telling us *who's* bad, and try and persuade us of your vision of what the world should look in the future, and how you think is the best way to achieve it.  Just a thought.
I'd like to think that were an option, but I sincerely doubt the chance of anyone here having their mind changed through discussion, myself included. I'll stick to snarky comments and thinking about sammitches, thanks.
And this is the problem with this country and this election.  Everybody wants to play identity politics.  It's easier.  No one wants to get down to the real dividing issues, because those are no fun.  It's so much fun to demand stimulus and reparations and free healthcare, and when asked "how do you propose we pay for it?" to shout "Racism!" "You hate the poor!"  "You're a libtard!"  "You're a Nazi!"  "Kill Mitch!" That's easy.

But it's true, trying to persuade me to accept a tax increase would be really, really hard.  Just about as hard as trying to convince a Democrat to accept spending cuts. 

Still, this is how deals are made.  You can get me to give up short term profit for long term profit.  That's how it's done.  But you have to convince me what the long term gain is for me.
Well said Bret. I actually think that Ohio will pay one of the biggest prices if Biden is elected. Raising corporate taxes may be the easiest cop-out and will ruin a vibrant economy. America is built on big business
But economy was doing just fine before the big tax cut.  If Trumpf hadn't bungled the economy with his random tariffs and new trade deals that are not much different from the old trade deals, the economy would have been even better during his term.  "Raising Corporate Taxes" is putting them back where they were (with a little extra for all the freebies they got from Trumpf)
There is also no proof that raising the minimum wage will do anything to increase unemployment, put small businesses out of business etc.  If anything, business has improved in cities and states where this has been implemented.
Sure as hell didn't improve things in Seattle.
Did it make it worse?
Define worse?  A lot of people lost their jobs.  I suppose those who didn't lose their jobs would consider it better.
Can you define "a lot"? Because everything I'm reading indicates an increase in the number of jobs at the bottom of the wage floor, which is exactly what proponents of increasing the minimum are hoping for.
A UW study in 2017 indicated 5,000 fewer low-wage jobs than there would have been otherwise, and the average overall pay went down $125 due to work hours being cut. Now, from 2017-2019, that was mitigated by the growth of the Trump economy. True enough. Consumers were willing to spend more, so the bleeding was mitigated. But in an economic downturn, those jobs and the businesses that provide them are toast. And it will take a major recovery to get back to that.

The notion that increasing minimum wage will cause a net increase in jobs is only viable in a very hot economy where consumers will spend more - in other words, it's a trickle-down theory. Increase earnings at the upper end of the scale and it will filter down to tolerance of the higher prices that will allow job expansion at the lower end. If earnings at the upper end sneeze, the lower end dies of pneumonia.

In addition, recoveries are driven by smaller businesses, much more vulnerable to labor costs. So if fewer of those companies go into action, because they can't afford the costs, then recoveries don't happen as quickly.
Perhaps $15 is too high for the market to bear, but to have a minimum wage that hasn't increased in 11 years and counting is unconscionable. Other than new technology, not a whole lot of things haven't increased in price in that timeframe.
Weren't Obama/Biden in office for the majority of that time? Congrats on the cigars
You're right about that. My guess is they were too busy fighting to give people healthcare to deal with it.
Fighting?  They rammed that absurdity through on greased rails.  They nuked cloture requirements, silencing the filibuster.  Course, it made them mad when Mitch did the same thing for judges.  But hey, that's politics.
The fight wasn't just the passage, it included the Senate voting 40+ times to repeal it.
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Travellin Dave

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Re: 11/3/2020
« Reply #137 on: November 03, 2020, 07:58:43 PM »

I vote for this SL to start my evening.
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Travellin Dave

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Re: 11/3/2020
« Reply #138 on: November 03, 2020, 08:05:31 PM »

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Travellin Dave

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Re: 11/3/2020
« Reply #139 on: November 03, 2020, 08:07:59 PM »

Dominicana mail call
Got my box today as well.
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sfish

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Re: 11/3/2020
« Reply #140 on: November 03, 2020, 08:11:57 PM »

We may got from 4 years of Russia Russia Russia to 4 years of Hunter Hunter Hunter. Or 4 more years of Russia Russia Russia. Depending on what the media company's think will sell best.
What's clear is that 2024 is already shaping up to be potentially worse than this one, I think. Will we be voting for Ivanka? Biden again? Kamala? Someone in these parts already has a giant JIM JORDAN 2024 sign under their equally overcompensatingly huge Drumpf sign. I'm already exhausted for future me.
Maybe you should spend less time telling us *who's* bad, and try and persuade us of your vision of what the world should look in the future, and how you think is the best way to achieve it.  Just a thought.
I'd like to think that were an option, but I sincerely doubt the chance of anyone here having their mind changed through discussion, myself included. I'll stick to snarky comments and thinking about sammitches, thanks.
And this is the problem with this country and this election.  Everybody wants to play identity politics.  It's easier.  No one wants to get down to the real dividing issues, because those are no fun.  It's so much fun to demand stimulus and reparations and free healthcare, and when asked "how do you propose we pay for it?" to shout "Racism!" "You hate the poor!"  "You're a libtard!"  "You're a Nazi!"  "Kill Mitch!" That's easy.

But it's true, trying to persuade me to accept a tax increase would be really, really hard.  Just about as hard as trying to convince a Democrat to accept spending cuts. 

Still, this is how deals are made.  You can get me to give up short term profit for long term profit.  That's how it's done.  But you have to convince me what the long term gain is for me.
Well said Bret. I actually think that Ohio will pay one of the biggest prices if Biden is elected. Raising corporate taxes may be the easiest cop-out and will ruin a vibrant economy. America is built on big business
But economy was doing just fine before the big tax cut.  If Trumpf hadn't bungled the economy with his random tariffs and new trade deals that are not much different from the old trade deals, the economy would have been even better during his term.  "Raising Corporate Taxes" is putting them back where they were (with a little extra for all the freebies they got from Trumpf)
There is also no proof that raising the minimum wage will do anything to increase unemployment, put small businesses out of business etc.  If anything, business has improved in cities and states where this has been implemented.
Sure as hell didn't improve things in Seattle.
Did it make it worse?
Define worse?  A lot of people lost their jobs.  I suppose those who didn't lose their jobs would consider it better.
Can you define "a lot"? Because everything I'm reading indicates an increase in the number of jobs at the bottom of the wage floor, which is exactly what proponents of increasing the minimum are hoping for.
A UW study in 2017 indicated 5,000 fewer low-wage jobs than there would have been otherwise, and the average overall pay went down $125 due to work hours being cut. Now, from 2017-2019, that was mitigated by the growth of the Trump economy. True enough. Consumers were willing to spend more, so the bleeding was mitigated. But in an economic downturn, those jobs and the businesses that provide them are toast. And it will take a major recovery to get back to that.

The notion that increasing minimum wage will cause a net increase in jobs is only viable in a very hot economy where consumers will spend more - in other words, it's a trickle-down theory. Increase earnings at the upper end of the scale and it will filter down to tolerance of the higher prices that will allow job expansion at the lower end. If earnings at the upper end sneeze, the lower end dies of pneumonia.

In addition, recoveries are driven by smaller businesses, much more vulnerable to labor costs. So if fewer of those companies go into action, because they can't afford the costs, then recoveries don't happen as quickly.
Perhaps $15 is too high for the market to bear, but to have a minimum wage that hasn't increased in 11 years and counting is unconscionable. Other than new technology, not a whole lot of things haven't increased in price in that timeframe.
Weren't Obama/Biden in office for the majority of that time? Congrats on the cigars
You're right about that. My guess is they were too busy fighting to give people healthcare to deal with it.
Fighting?  They rammed that absurdity through on greased rails.  They nuked cloture requirements, silencing the filibuster.  Course, it made them mad when Mitch did the same thing for judges.  But hey, that's politics.
They also gave insurance companies an out, if ObamaCare was ever taken away, they wouldn’t have to honor pre-existing conditions. This is the fight left for Trump by that administration
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sfish

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Re: 11/3/2020
« Reply #141 on: November 03, 2020, 08:12:53 PM »

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LuvTooGolf

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Re: 11/3/2020
« Reply #142 on: November 03, 2020, 09:21:39 PM »

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sfish

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Re: 11/3/2020
« Reply #143 on: November 03, 2020, 10:29:24 PM »

Dominicana mail call
Got my box today as well.
Wow I really enabled you a lot recently, I may have to pay you a visit and help you smoke some
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sfish

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Re: 11/3/2020
« Reply #144 on: November 03, 2020, 10:30:12 PM »

I vote for this SL to start my evening.
Cain Daytona for me.
Haven’t smoked one of those in forever, how are they holding up?
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Travellin Dave

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Re: 11/3/2020
« Reply #145 on: November 03, 2020, 10:53:34 PM »

Dominicana mail call
Got my box today as well.
Wow I really enabled you a lot recently, I may have to pay you a visit and help you smoke some
Always a room open. White whale sign is up.
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LuvTooGolf

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Re: 11/3/2020
« Reply #146 on: November 03, 2020, 11:11:38 PM »

I vote for this SL to start my evening.
Cain Daytona for me.
Haven’t smoked one of those in forever, how are they holding up?
These I didn't get too long ago, and they're still as good as ever.
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