Post by: CigarBanter on August 23, 2023, 12:00:40 AM
Post by: LuvTooGolf on August 23, 2023, 05:28:22 AM
Post by: LuvTooGolf on August 23, 2023, 05:29:06 AM
Ave Maria Lionheart Bishop - 10/39.99
Post by: LuvTooGolf on August 23, 2023, 05:30:07 AM
Door #1 - Room 101 Ichiban Habano Torpedo - 20/49.99
Door #2 - Camacho Ecuador Robusto - 15/59.99
Door #3 - Drew Estate Traditional 10-ct Sampler - 10/49.99
Post by: A Friend of Charlie on August 23, 2023, 06:41:41 AM
Post by: A Friend of Charlie on August 23, 2023, 06:42:35 AM
Morning, humps. Back to school time, and PayDayWednesday.Howdy, Dave. It's payday Wednesday for me too!
Post by: A Friend of Charlie on August 23, 2023, 06:46:40 AM
Post by: LuvTooGolf on August 23, 2023, 06:55:55 AM
Good morning, folks. Who's humping and who's being humped?The kids are off to school and the morning went relatively smoothly. So while I didn't hump, the feeling is almost as good. :D
Post by: LuvTooGolf on August 23, 2023, 06:56:22 AM
Hot darn!Morning, humps. Back to school time, and PayDayWednesday.Howdy, Dave. It's payday Wednesday for me too!
Post by: A Friend of Charlie on August 23, 2023, 07:12:42 AM
I hear ya.Good morning, folks. Who's humping and who's being humped?The kids are off to school and the morning went relatively smoothly. So while I didn't hump, the feeling is almost as good. :D
Post by: A Friend of Charlie on August 23, 2023, 07:24:11 AM
Couple of prospects. One looks especially good but I'd be taking a pay cut. I'm rationalizing it because the benefits are great and it's super stable. No more contracting and this could be the place I retire from in ~15 years. Definitely putting the cart before the horse though.
Post by: LuvTooGolf on August 23, 2023, 07:33:17 AM
We've got two more weeks before school starts. Planning on spending Labor Day weekend at my brother's. Fingers crossed, I should be starting a new job right around then also.Stability is a huge factor, especially when you're on the back 9 of your working life, so to speak.
Couple of prospects. One looks especially good but I'd be taking a pay cut. I'm rationalizing it because the benefits are great and it's super stable. No more contracting and this could be the place I retire from in ~15 years. Definitely putting the cart before the horse though.
Post by: A Friend of Charlie on August 23, 2023, 07:51:31 AM
Completely agree. Been laid off three times in 7 years. I'm over it.We've got two more weeks before school starts. Planning on spending Labor Day weekend at my brother's. Fingers crossed, I should be starting a new job right around then also.Stability is a huge factor, especially when you're on the back 9 of your working life, so to speak.
Couple of prospects. One looks especially good but I'd be taking a pay cut. I'm rationalizing it because the benefits are great and it's super stable. No more contracting and this could be the place I retire from in ~15 years. Definitely putting the cart before the horse though.
Post by: A Friend of Charlie on August 23, 2023, 08:03:50 AM
Wordle 795 4/6
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⬛🟩🟩🟩🟩
🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩
Post by: A Friend of Charlie on August 23, 2023, 08:42:57 AM
Post by: LuvTooGolf on August 23, 2023, 08:43:47 AM
I'm in the mood for a cigar but I know I'll regret it since I already woke up with a sore throat this morning.Sounds like if you have a sore throat already, you might as well go for it. Then you'll have a sore throat AND a cigar.
Post by: Travellin Dave on August 23, 2023, 09:39:53 AM
I'm in the mood for a cigar but I know I'll regret it since I already woke up with a sore throat this morning.Just take a little shot of Chloroseptic or a throat lozenge and enjoy!
Post by: Travellin Dave on August 23, 2023, 09:40:27 AM
Exactly right!I'm in the mood for a cigar but I know I'll regret it since I already woke up with a sore throat this morning.Sounds like if you have a sore throat already, you might as well go for it. Then you'll have a sore throat AND a cigar.
Post by: A Friend of Charlie on August 23, 2023, 09:41:20 AM
I forgot what enablers you all are.Exactly right!I'm in the mood for a cigar but I know I'll regret it since I already woke up with a sore throat this morning.Sounds like if you have a sore throat already, you might as well go for it. Then you'll have a sore throat AND a cigar.
Post by: Travellin Dave on August 23, 2023, 09:43:20 AM
Today is Wednesday, Aug. 23, the 235th day of 2023.
There are 130 days left in the year.Today’s Highlight in History:
On Aug 23, 1927, amid worldwide protests, Italian-born anarchists Nicola Sacco and Bartolomeo Vanzetti were executed in Boston for the murders of two men during a 1920 robbery. (On the 50th anniversary of their executions, then-Massachusetts Gov. Michael Dukakis issued a proclamation that Sacco and Vanzetti had been unfairly tried and convicted.)
On this date:
In 1305, Scottish rebel leader Sir William Wallace was executed by the English for treason.
In 1775, Britain’s King George III proclaimed the American colonies to be in a state of “open and avowed rebellion.”
In 1914, Japan declared war against Germany in World War I.
In 1939, Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union agreed to a non-aggression treaty, the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact, in Moscow.
In 2000, A Gulf Air Airbus crashed into the Persian Gulf near Bahrain, killing all 143 people aboard.
In 2003, former priest John Geoghan (GAY’-gun), the convicted child molester whose prosecution sparked the sex abuse scandal that shook the Roman Catholic Church nationwide, died after another inmate attacked him in a Massachusetts prison.
In 2004, President George W. Bush criticized a political commercial accusing Democratic nominee John Kerry of inflating his own Vietnam War record, and said broadcast attacks by outside groups had no place in the race for the White House.
In 2008, Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama introduced his choice of running mate, Sen. Joe Biden of Delaware, before a crowd outside the Old State Capitol in Springfield, Illinois.
In 2011, a magnitude-5.8 earthquake centered near Mineral, Virginia, the strongest on the East Coast since 1944, caused cracks in the Washington Monument and damaged Washington National Cathedral.
In 2020, a white police officer in Kenosha, Wisconsin, shot a Black man, Jacob Blake, seven times as officers tried to arrest Blake on an outstanding warrant; the shooting left Blake partially paralyzed and triggered several nights of violent protests.
Post by: LuvTooGolf on August 23, 2023, 09:46:47 AM
Today’s Highlight in History:We've definitely journeyed a long way since this.
In 2004, President George W. Bush criticized a political commercial accusing Democratic nominee John Kerry of inflating his own Vietnam War record, and said broadcast attacks by outside groups had no place in the race for the White House.
Post by: Travellin Dave on August 23, 2023, 09:56:12 AM
Five years ago: Mark David Chapman, the killer of former Beatle John Lennon, was denied parole for a 10th time. The long-running rift between President Donald Trump and Attorney General Jeff Sessions exploded into a public smackdown, with Trump accusing Sessions of failing to take control of the Justice Department and Sessions responding that he “will not be improperly influenced by political considerations.” The United States and China imposed tariff increases on an additional $16 billion of each other’s goods.
One year ago: A jury convicted two men of conspiring to kidnap Michigan Gov. Gretchen Whitmer in 2020, a victory for prosecutors in a plot that was broken up by the FBI and described as a rallying cry for a U.S. civil war by anti-government extremists. Adam Fox and Barry Croft Jr. were also found guilty of conspiring to obtain a weapon of mass destruction as part of the plot. The husband of U.S. House Speaker Nancy Pelosi pleaded guilty to misdemeanor DUI related to a crash in California’s wine country and agreed to spend five days in prison. The Nielsen Co. revealed that the “Game of Thrones” spinoff “House of the Dragon” was the most-watched series premiere ever for HBO.
Post by: Travellin Dave on August 23, 2023, 09:56:54 AM
LONG way.Today’s Highlight in History:We've definitely journeyed a long way since this.
In 2004, President George W. Bush criticized a political commercial accusing Democratic nominee John Kerry of inflating his own Vietnam War record, and said broadcast attacks by outside groups had no place in the race for the White House.
Post by: Travellin Dave on August 23, 2023, 09:58:57 AM
I didn't know Japan was in WWI.
Post by: Travellin Dave on August 23, 2023, 10:02:43 AM
Actor Vera Miles is 93.
Actor Barbara Eden is 92.
Pro Football Hall of Famer Sonny Jurgensen is 89.
Actor Richard Sanders is 83.
Ballet dancer Patricia McBride is 81.
Former Surgeon General Antonia Novello is 79.
Country singer Rex Allen Jr. is 76.
Actor David Robb is 76.
Singer Linda Thompson is 76.
Actor Shelley Long is 74.
Actor-singer Rick Springfield is 74.
Country singer-musician Woody Paul (Riders in the Sky) is 74.
Noor al-Hussein (Queen Noor of Jordan) is 72.
Actor-producer Mark Hudson is 72.
Actor Skipp Sudduth is 67.
Rock musician Dean DeLeo (Army of Anyone; Stone Temple Pilots) is 62.
Actor Jay Mohr is 53.
Actor Ray Park is 49.
Actor Scott Caan is 47.
Country singer Shelly Fairchild is 46.
Figure skater Nicole Bobek (BOH’-bek) is 46.
Rock singer Julian Casablancas (The Strokes) is 45.
Actor Joanne Froggatt is 43.
Actor Jaime Lee Kirchner is 42.
Actor Annie Ilonzeh is 40.
Dance musician Sky Blu is 37.
Actor Kimberly Matula is 35.
Basketball player Jeremy Lin is 35.
Post by: Travellin Dave on August 23, 2023, 10:03:01 AM
Post by: A Friend of Charlie on August 23, 2023, 10:06:02 AM
Ah, the good ole days.Today’s Highlight in History:We've definitely journeyed a long way since this.
In 2004, President George W. Bush criticized a political commercial accusing Democratic nominee John Kerry of inflating his own Vietnam War record, and said broadcast attacks by outside groups had no place in the race for the White House.
Post by: LuvTooGolf on August 23, 2023, 10:08:15 AM
Today's Over/Under is 76
Post by: LuvTooGolf on August 23, 2023, 10:09:06 AM
The last set of Republican debates had the candidates referring to the size of their dicks. I can't wait to see what tonight brings.Ah, the good ole days.Today’s Highlight in History:We've definitely journeyed a long way since this.
In 2004, President George W. Bush criticized a political commercial accusing Democratic nominee John Kerry of inflating his own Vietnam War record, and said broadcast attacks by outside groups had no place in the race for the White House.
Post by: A Friend of Charlie on August 23, 2023, 10:24:27 AM
Today's Over/Under is 7Six for me too.
Post by: A Friend of Charlie on August 23, 2023, 10:25:12 AM
In the end, they're all big dicks anyway.The last set of Republican debates had the candidates referring to the size of their dicks. I can't wait to see what tonight brings.Ah, the good ole days.Today’s Highlight in History:We've definitely journeyed a long way since this.
In 2004, President George W. Bush criticized a political commercial accusing Democratic nominee John Kerry of inflating his own Vietnam War record, and said broadcast attacks by outside groups had no place in the race for the White House.
Post by: Travellin Dave on August 23, 2023, 10:31:19 AM
...and that was only the women....The last set of Republican debates had the candidates referring to the size of their dicks. I can't wait to see what tonight brings.Ah, the good ole days.Today’s Highlight in History:We've definitely journeyed a long way since this.
In 2004, President George W. Bush criticized a political commercial accusing Democratic nominee John Kerry of inflating his own Vietnam War record, and said broadcast attacks by outside groups had no place in the race for the White House.
Post by: Travellin Dave on August 23, 2023, 10:32:45 AM
And that brings us to page 3 Tony!In the end, they're all big dicks anyway.The last set of Republican debates had the candidates referring to the size of their dicks. I can't wait to see what tonight brings.Ah, the good ole days.Today’s Highlight in History:We've definitely journeyed a long way since this.
In 2004, President George W. Bush criticized a political commercial accusing Democratic nominee John Kerry of inflating his own Vietnam War record, and said broadcast attacks by outside groups had no place in the race for the White House.
Post by: LuvTooGolf on August 23, 2023, 10:32:51 AM
Lots of talk in the soccer world these days about how much time the ball is actually in play in a match. I wish I could see similar numbers tomorrow for how much time they spend tonight actually discussing political ideas, or even answering the question asked of them.In the end, they're all big dicks anyway.The last set of Republican debates had the candidates referring to the size of their dicks. I can't wait to see what tonight brings.Ah, the good ole days.Today’s Highlight in History:We've definitely journeyed a long way since this.
In 2004, President George W. Bush criticized a political commercial accusing Democratic nominee John Kerry of inflating his own Vietnam War record, and said broadcast attacks by outside groups had no place in the race for the White House.
Post by: Travellin Dave on August 23, 2023, 10:33:52 AM
Post by: Travellin Dave on August 23, 2023, 10:34:46 AM
Post by: Travellin Dave on August 23, 2023, 10:36:39 AM
I do find it rather curious how when they are asked a specific question, they pivot right into whatever they want to talk about.Lots of talk in the soccer world these days about how much time the ball is actually in play in a match. I wish I could see similar numbers tomorrow for how much time they spend tonight actually discussing political ideas, or even answering the question asked of them.In the end, they're all big dicks anyway.The last set of Republican debates had the candidates referring to the size of their dicks. I can't wait to see what tonight brings.Ah, the good ole days.Today’s Highlight in History:We've definitely journeyed a long way since this.
In 2004, President George W. Bush criticized a political commercial accusing Democratic nominee John Kerry of inflating his own Vietnam War record, and said broadcast attacks by outside groups had no place in the race for the White House.
Post by: LuvTooGolf on August 23, 2023, 10:44:15 AM
I think it would be great if in debates, the moderator had control of the mics. You ask someone a question, everyone else's mic is off. If the person you asked the question of veers into one of their talking points, their mic gets cut off and they move on to the next person. Instead of the shitshow we normally get, we might get something of actual value.I do find it rather curious how when they are asked a specific question, they pivot right into whatever they want to talk about.Lots of talk in the soccer world these days about how much time the ball is actually in play in a match. I wish I could see similar numbers tomorrow for how much time they spend tonight actually discussing political ideas, or even answering the question asked of them.In the end, they're all big dicks anyway.The last set of Republican debates had the candidates referring to the size of their dicks. I can't wait to see what tonight brings.Ah, the good ole days.Today’s Highlight in History:We've definitely journeyed a long way since this.
In 2004, President George W. Bush criticized a political commercial accusing Democratic nominee John Kerry of inflating his own Vietnam War record, and said broadcast attacks by outside groups had no place in the race for the White House.
Post by: LuvTooGolf on August 23, 2023, 11:05:13 AM
Post by: razgueado on August 23, 2023, 11:26:09 AM
Post by: razgueado on August 23, 2023, 11:26:29 AM
Wordle 795 6/6
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⬛⬛🟩⬛🟩
🟩🟩🟩⬛🟩
🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩
Post by: razgueado on August 23, 2023, 11:30:25 AM
Today's Over/Under is 7Twelve.
Post by: LuvTooGolf on August 23, 2023, 11:43:43 AM
Morning, muchachos.Morning, Page3Raz.
Post by: LuvTooGolf on August 23, 2023, 11:44:09 AM
Wordle 795 5/6*
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Post by: razgueado on August 23, 2023, 11:44:17 AM
And the more mature well represented.Wrong Linda Thompson. This is the one that was born Linda Pettifer on 8/23/1947. She wasn't a girlfriend of Elvis or a Hee Haw Honey
Now, if you can find a birthdate for Linda Diane Thompson, she's definitely worthy of pictures.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230823/054cbacff8d8c0d166ff94cb591a43dc.jpg)
Post by: razgueado on August 23, 2023, 11:58:41 AM
Not really, because no leading candidate would show up.I think it would be great if in debates, the moderator had control of the mics. You ask someone a question, everyone else's mic is off. If the person you asked the question of veers into one of their talking points, their mic gets cut off and they move on to the next person. Instead of the shitshow we normally get, we might get something of actual value.I do find it rather curious how when they are asked a specific question, they pivot right into whatever they want to talk about.Lots of talk in the soccer world these days about how much time the ball is actually in play in a match. I wish I could see similar numbers tomorrow for how much time they spend tonight actually discussing political ideas, or even answering the question asked of them.In the end, they're all big dicks anyway.The last set of Republican debates had the candidates referring to the size of their dicks. I can't wait to see what tonight brings.Ah, the good ole days.Today’s Highlight in History:We've definitely journeyed a long way since this.
In 2004, President George W. Bush criticized a political commercial accusing Democratic nominee John Kerry of inflating his own Vietnam War record, and said broadcast attacks by outside groups had no place in the race for the White House.
Post by: A Friend of Charlie on August 23, 2023, 12:03:02 PM
Also, it wouldn't make for great ratings.Not really, because no leading candidate would show up.I think it would be great if in debates, the moderator had control of the mics. You ask someone a question, everyone else's mic is off. If the person you asked the question of veers into one of their talking points, their mic gets cut off and they move on to the next person. Instead of the shitshow we normally get, we might get something of actual value.I do find it rather curious how when they are asked a specific question, they pivot right into whatever they want to talk about.Lots of talk in the soccer world these days about how much time the ball is actually in play in a match. I wish I could see similar numbers tomorrow for how much time they spend tonight actually discussing political ideas, or even answering the question asked of them.In the end, they're all big dicks anyway.The last set of Republican debates had the candidates referring to the size of their dicks. I can't wait to see what tonight brings.Ah, the good ole days.Today’s Highlight in History:We've definitely journeyed a long way since this.
In 2004, President George W. Bush criticized a political commercial accusing Democratic nominee John Kerry of inflating his own Vietnam War record, and said broadcast attacks by outside groups had no place in the race for the White House.
Post by: LuvTooGolf on August 23, 2023, 12:04:39 PM
Probably not, but imagine being one of only a couple candidates that show up. It's basically one giant commercial for them at that point.Not really, because no leading candidate would show up.I think it would be great if in debates, the moderator had control of the mics. You ask someone a question, everyone else's mic is off. If the person you asked the question of veers into one of their talking points, their mic gets cut off and they move on to the next person. Instead of the shitshow we normally get, we might get something of actual value.I do find it rather curious how when they are asked a specific question, they pivot right into whatever they want to talk about.Lots of talk in the soccer world these days about how much time the ball is actually in play in a match. I wish I could see similar numbers tomorrow for how much time they spend tonight actually discussing political ideas, or even answering the question asked of them.In the end, they're all big dicks anyway.The last set of Republican debates had the candidates referring to the size of their dicks. I can't wait to see what tonight brings.Ah, the good ole days.Today’s Highlight in History:We've definitely journeyed a long way since this.
In 2004, President George W. Bush criticized a political commercial accusing Democratic nominee John Kerry of inflating his own Vietnam War record, and said broadcast attacks by outside groups had no place in the race for the White House.
But alas, I know it's a pipe dream.
Post by: razgueado on August 23, 2023, 12:08:31 PM
https://youtu.be/57PENuNVapc
Post by: razgueado on August 23, 2023, 12:09:16 PM
It's not a commercial for them if they can't spin, and demonstrate that they can control the conversation. That's the problem.Probably not, but imagine being one of only a couple candidates that show up. It's basically one giant commercial for them at that point.Not really, because no leading candidate would show up.I think it would be great if in debates, the moderator had control of the mics. You ask someone a question, everyone else's mic is off. If the person you asked the question of veers into one of their talking points, their mic gets cut off and they move on to the next person. Instead of the shitshow we normally get, we might get something of actual value.I do find it rather curious how when they are asked a specific question, they pivot right into whatever they want to talk about.Lots of talk in the soccer world these days about how much time the ball is actually in play in a match. I wish I could see similar numbers tomorrow for how much time they spend tonight actually discussing political ideas, or even answering the question asked of them.In the end, they're all big dicks anyway.The last set of Republican debates had the candidates referring to the size of their dicks. I can't wait to see what tonight brings.Ah, the good ole days.Today’s Highlight in History:We've definitely journeyed a long way since this.
In 2004, President George W. Bush criticized a political commercial accusing Democratic nominee John Kerry of inflating his own Vietnam War record, and said broadcast attacks by outside groups had no place in the race for the White House.
But alas, I know it's a pipe dream.
Post by: razgueado on August 23, 2023, 12:52:45 PM
The problem with elected officials is the people that elect them.It's not a commercial for them if they can't spin, and demonstrate that they can control the conversation. That's the problem.Probably not, but imagine being one of only a couple candidates that show up. It's basically one giant commercial for them at that point.Not really, because no leading candidate would show up.I think it would be great if in debates, the moderator had control of the mics. You ask someone a question, everyone else's mic is off. If the person you asked the question of veers into one of their talking points, their mic gets cut off and they move on to the next person. Instead of the shitshow we normally get, we might get something of actual value.I do find it rather curious how when they are asked a specific question, they pivot right into whatever they want to talk about.Lots of talk in the soccer world these days about how much time the ball is actually in play in a match. I wish I could see similar numbers tomorrow for how much time they spend tonight actually discussing political ideas, or even answering the question asked of them.In the end, they're all big dicks anyway.The last set of Republican debates had the candidates referring to the size of their dicks. I can't wait to see what tonight brings.Ah, the good ole days.Today’s Highlight in History:We've definitely journeyed a long way since this.
In 2004, President George W. Bush criticized a political commercial accusing Democratic nominee John Kerry of inflating his own Vietnam War record, and said broadcast attacks by outside groups had no place in the race for the White House.
But alas, I know it's a pipe dream.
Post by: LuvTooGolf on August 23, 2023, 01:10:53 PM
I'd argue that it's still a commercial, just maybe not one filled with propaganda like the normal political commercials. Perhaps I should've used the word showcase instead of commercial. But I'm aware of this being nothing more than a wild fantasy. It would just be nice for once to watch a debate where candidates actually, you know, debate.It's not a commercial for them if they can't spin, and demonstrate that they can control the conversation. That's the problem.Probably not, but imagine being one of only a couple candidates that show up. It's basically one giant commercial for them at that point.Not really, because no leading candidate would show up.I think it would be great if in debates, the moderator had control of the mics. You ask someone a question, everyone else's mic is off. If the person you asked the question of veers into one of their talking points, their mic gets cut off and they move on to the next person. Instead of the shitshow we normally get, we might get something of actual value.I do find it rather curious how when they are asked a specific question, they pivot right into whatever they want to talk about.Lots of talk in the soccer world these days about how much time the ball is actually in play in a match. I wish I could see similar numbers tomorrow for how much time they spend tonight actually discussing political ideas, or even answering the question asked of them.In the end, they're all big dicks anyway.The last set of Republican debates had the candidates referring to the size of their dicks. I can't wait to see what tonight brings.Ah, the good ole days.Today’s Highlight in History:We've definitely journeyed a long way since this.
In 2004, President George W. Bush criticized a political commercial accusing Democratic nominee John Kerry of inflating his own Vietnam War record, and said broadcast attacks by outside groups had no place in the race for the White House.
But alas, I know it's a pipe dream.
Post by: A Friend of Charlie on August 23, 2023, 01:46:37 PM
You don't enjoy debates brought to you by the World Wrestling Entertainment company?I'd argue that it's still a commercial, just maybe not one filled with propaganda like the normal political commercials. Perhaps I should've used the word showcase instead of commercial. But I'm aware of this being nothing more than a wild fantasy. It would just be nice for once to watch a debate where candidates actually, you know, debate.It's not a commercial for them if they can't spin, and demonstrate that they can control the conversation. That's the problem.Probably not, but imagine being one of only a couple candidates that show up. It's basically one giant commercial for them at that point.Not really, because no leading candidate would show up.I think it would be great if in debates, the moderator had control of the mics. You ask someone a question, everyone else's mic is off. If the person you asked the question of veers into one of their talking points, their mic gets cut off and they move on to the next person. Instead of the shitshow we normally get, we might get something of actual value.I do find it rather curious how when they are asked a specific question, they pivot right into whatever they want to talk about.Lots of talk in the soccer world these days about how much time the ball is actually in play in a match. I wish I could see similar numbers tomorrow for how much time they spend tonight actually discussing political ideas, or even answering the question asked of them.In the end, they're all big dicks anyway.The last set of Republican debates had the candidates referring to the size of their dicks. I can't wait to see what tonight brings.Ah, the good ole days.Today’s Highlight in History:We've definitely journeyed a long way since this.
In 2004, President George W. Bush criticized a political commercial accusing Democratic nominee John Kerry of inflating his own Vietnam War record, and said broadcast attacks by outside groups had no place in the race for the White House.
But alas, I know it's a pipe dream.
Post by: LuvTooGolf on August 23, 2023, 01:53:34 PM
I would say I enjoy them for as long as it takes for it to go from entertaining nonsense to horror, which doesn't take long these days. But given the choice, give me a good old fashioned actual debate any day.You don't enjoy debates brought to you by the World Wrestling Entertainment company?I'd argue that it's still a commercial, just maybe not one filled with propaganda like the normal political commercials. Perhaps I should've used the word showcase instead of commercial. But I'm aware of this being nothing more than a wild fantasy. It would just be nice for once to watch a debate where candidates actually, you know, debate.It's not a commercial for them if they can't spin, and demonstrate that they can control the conversation. That's the problem.Probably not, but imagine being one of only a couple candidates that show up. It's basically one giant commercial for them at that point.Not really, because no leading candidate would show up.I think it would be great if in debates, the moderator had control of the mics. You ask someone a question, everyone else's mic is off. If the person you asked the question of veers into one of their talking points, their mic gets cut off and they move on to the next person. Instead of the shitshow we normally get, we might get something of actual value.I do find it rather curious how when they are asked a specific question, they pivot right into whatever they want to talk about.Lots of talk in the soccer world these days about how much time the ball is actually in play in a match. I wish I could see similar numbers tomorrow for how much time they spend tonight actually discussing political ideas, or even answering the question asked of them.In the end, they're all big dicks anyway.The last set of Republican debates had the candidates referring to the size of their dicks. I can't wait to see what tonight brings.Ah, the good ole days.Today’s Highlight in History:We've definitely journeyed a long way since this.
In 2004, President George W. Bush criticized a political commercial accusing Democratic nominee John Kerry of inflating his own Vietnam War record, and said broadcast attacks by outside groups had no place in the race for the White House.
But alas, I know it's a pipe dream.
Post by: razgueado on August 23, 2023, 02:09:55 PM
Yeah, I get it. I'm just not sure it has ever happened. Everyone seems to think that once upon a time politics was civil and journalism was objective, and that's a rosy idea, but I find little historical evidence to support it. Even the quote from George W Bush that we're reminiscing about - you understand that he was grandstanding, right? It's real easy to appear noble and indignant about some dirty trick that one is benefitting from. And if you want an education about political dirty tricks and media manipulation, read Edward J Larson's fascinating book "A Magnificent Catastrophe: The Tumultuous Election of 1800, America's First Presidential Campaign."I'd argue that it's still a commercial, just maybe not one filled with propaganda like the normal political commercials. Perhaps I should've used the word showcase instead of commercial. But I'm aware of this being nothing more than a wild fantasy. It would just be nice for once to watch a debate where candidates actually, you know, debate.It's not a commercial for them if they can't spin, and demonstrate that they can control the conversation. That's the problem.Probably not, but imagine being one of only a couple candidates that show up. It's basically one giant commercial for them at that point.Not really, because no leading candidate would show up.I think it would be great if in debates, the moderator had control of the mics. You ask someone a question, everyone else's mic is off. If the person you asked the question of veers into one of their talking points, their mic gets cut off and they move on to the next person. Instead of the shitshow we normally get, we might get something of actual value.I do find it rather curious how when they are asked a specific question, they pivot right into whatever they want to talk about.Lots of talk in the soccer world these days about how much time the ball is actually in play in a match. I wish I could see similar numbers tomorrow for how much time they spend tonight actually discussing political ideas, or even answering the question asked of them.In the end, they're all big dicks anyway.The last set of Republican debates had the candidates referring to the size of their dicks. I can't wait to see what tonight brings.Ah, the good ole days.Today’s Highlight in History:We've definitely journeyed a long way since this.
In 2004, President George W. Bush criticized a political commercial accusing Democratic nominee John Kerry of inflating his own Vietnam War record, and said broadcast attacks by outside groups had no place in the race for the White House.
But alas, I know it's a pipe dream.
For that matter, read the various Latin and Greek texts that aren't ennobled in the "great conversation" of western civilization, and see how vicious Greek and Roman politics got rhetorically (before the actual knives were pulled out).
So I'm skeptical that even the Lincoln/Douglas debates could be held up as some shining example of civil politics in America. Those debates were pursued by challenging candidate Lincoln in hopes of attracting more media attention. Douglas had nothing to gain from them, but was dragged into them because Lincoln had taken to speaking on days after Douglas had, such that Douglas could not answer Lincoln's accusations. The newspapers loyal to Lincoln made much of this, and also portrayed Douglas as a coward for previously refusing to debate. As for the debate content itself, Douglas frequently took Lincoln to the cleaners, making Lincoln answer for half-cocked pronouncements that Lincoln had made about slavery for the sake of headlines, and exposing the fact that Lincoln really had no policy for managing the abolition of slavery, just a lot of noble and provocative bloviations. And had Lincoln not spun his own statements, when they were hung on him by Douglas, by reassuring the white audiences that he wasn't really proposing that blacks were equal to whites, he'd now be a minor footnote to history, because he'd never have been elected president two years later.
Like I said, I just don't see much historical evidence that politics has ever been civil, nor journalism objective.
Post by: A Friend of Charlie on August 23, 2023, 02:23:11 PM
Post by: razgueado on August 23, 2023, 02:29:14 PM
Two months after he led an abortive coup against Vladimir Putin.
What a coincidence, eh?
Post by: razgueado on August 23, 2023, 03:04:57 PM
I hear you @razgueado but don't you agree that debates in recent years have gotten exponentially sensational. It's probably necessary given the state of our collective ADHD.Not exponentially, and not proportionally. What has changed are society's expectations. The transformation begins with the first televised presidential debate - which is not what you think it is. The first televised presidential debate took place in 1956, but didn't involve the actual candidates. Eleanor Roosevelt stood in for Adlai Stevenson, and Maine Senator Margaret Chase Smith for Dwight Eisenhower. Smith took great care to prepare for the debate, from content to appearance.
Roosevelt spoke the most, but Smith looked the best and got the zinger at the end, and Roosevelt was so pissed about it that she refused to shake hands with Smith.
Four years later, John Kennedy learned the lesson, Nixon didn't. Nixon was the better debater and the more seasoned politician, but took no care about his appearance. If you read the transcript of the debate, it's pretty clear Nixon won. But he looked like s**t, so guess who viewers thought won the debate?
From there it's been one long, steady race to the bottom, until we get to Donald Trump. And here's the thing about Trump - he didn't make America bitterly divided, he exposed the division, and the simmering resentment, for what it was. That he did it like a WWE huckster was a direct result of the influence of broadcast media. Trump fit right into what broadcast media - including the internet - as a whole had become. He ripped away the last vestiges of the rosy illusion of gentility in politics. Americans as a whole had abandoned the notion of gentility sometime around 1968, but the notion of "gravitas" still held sway over presidential politics, until Trump v. Clinton. Neither candidate had any gravitas. Hillary tried desperately to project some, always failing. Trump didn't bother to try. He knew it as an antiquated notion. He was a real estate hustler, a casino investor, a beauty pageant promoter, a WWE promoter, and a reality tv star. He knew for certain what the electorate valued, and gravitas was no longer it. Americans, regardless of political persuasion, wanted a streetlight. Trump gave it to them.
Post by: LuvTooGolf on August 23, 2023, 03:33:11 PM
Breaking News: Yevgeny Prigozhin, leader of Russia's paramilitary Wagner Group, is listed on the passenger manifest of a plane that crashed north of Moscow.Was he the only passenger?
Two months after he led an abortive coup against Vladimir Putin.
What a coincidence, eh?
Post by: A Friend of Charlie on August 23, 2023, 05:26:02 PM
That's interesting. I guess that was just my perception. It's normal that every generation feels like things worsen with time. For example, they don't make music like they used to.I hear you @razgueado but don't you agree that debates in recent years have gotten exponentially sensational. It's probably necessary given the state of our collective ADHD.Not exponentially, and not proportionally. What has changed are society's expectations. The transformation begins with the first televised presidential debate - which is not what you think it is. The first televised presidential debate took place in 1956, but didn't involve the actual candidates. Eleanor Roosevelt stood in for Adlai Stevenson, and Maine Senator Margaret Chase Smith for Dwight Eisenhower. Smith took great care to prepare for the debate, from content to appearance.
Roosevelt spoke the most, but Smith looked the best and got the zinger at the end, and Roosevelt was so pissed about it that she refused to shake hands with Smith.
Four years later, John Kennedy learned the lesson, Nixon didn't. Nixon was the better debater and the more seasoned politician, but took no care about his appearance. If you read the transcript of the debate, it's pretty clear Nixon won. But he looked like s**t, so guess who viewers thought won the debate?
From there it's been one long, steady race to the bottom, until we get to Donald Trump. And here's the thing about Trump - he didn't make America bitterly divided, he exposed the division, and the simmering resentment, for what it was. That he did it like a WWE huckster was a direct result of the influence of broadcast media. Trump fit right into what broadcast media - including the internet - as a whole had become. He ripped away the last vestiges of the rosy illusion of gentility in politics. Americans as a whole had abandoned the notion of gentility sometime around 1968, but the notion of "gravitas" still held sway over presidential politics, until Trump v. Clinton. Neither candidate had any gravitas. Hillary tried desperately to project some, always failing. Trump didn't bother to try. He knew it as an antiquated notion. He was a real estate hustler, a casino investor, a beauty pageant promoter, a WWE promoter, and a reality tv star. He knew for certain what the electorate valued, and gravitas was no longer it. Americans, regardless of political persuasion, wanted a streetlight. Trump gave it to them.
Post by: LuvTooGolf on August 23, 2023, 06:57:34 PM
We went from a handshake refusal to where we are today. I feel like at least some of the feeling things have gotten much worse is legit.That's interesting. I guess that was just my perception. It's normal that every generation feels like things worsen with time. For example, they don't make music like they used to.I hear you @razgueado but don't you agree that debates in recent years have gotten exponentially sensational. It's probably necessary given the state of our collective ADHD.Not exponentially, and not proportionally. What has changed are society's expectations. The transformation begins with the first televised presidential debate - which is not what you think it is. The first televised presidential debate took place in 1956, but didn't involve the actual candidates. Eleanor Roosevelt stood in for Adlai Stevenson, and Maine Senator Margaret Chase Smith for Dwight Eisenhower. Smith took great care to prepare for the debate, from content to appearance.
Roosevelt spoke the most, but Smith looked the best and got the zinger at the end, and Roosevelt was so pissed about it that she refused to shake hands with Smith.
Four years later, John Kennedy learned the lesson, Nixon didn't. Nixon was the better debater and the more seasoned politician, but took no care about his appearance. If you read the transcript of the debate, it's pretty clear Nixon won. But he looked like s**t, so guess who viewers thought won the debate?
From there it's been one long, steady race to the bottom, until we get to Donald Trump. And here's the thing about Trump - he didn't make America bitterly divided, he exposed the division, and the simmering resentment, for what it was. That he did it like a WWE huckster was a direct result of the influence of broadcast media. Trump fit right into what broadcast media - including the internet - as a whole had become. He ripped away the last vestiges of the rosy illusion of gentility in politics. Americans as a whole had abandoned the notion of gentility sometime around 1968, but the notion of "gravitas" still held sway over presidential politics, until Trump v. Clinton. Neither candidate had any gravitas. Hillary tried desperately to project some, always failing. Trump didn't bother to try. He knew it as an antiquated notion. He was a real estate hustler, a casino investor, a beauty pageant promoter, a WWE promoter, and a reality tv star. He knew for certain what the electorate valued, and gravitas was no longer it. Americans, regardless of political persuasion, wanted a streetlight. Trump gave it to them.
Post by: razgueado on August 23, 2023, 07:40:52 PM
Okay, but compared to what? J. Edgar Hoover being the source of rumors that Adlai Stevenson was gay? The Cuomo campaign against Ed Koch posting ads saying "Vote for Cuomo, not the homo"? Davy Crockett's implication that Martin Van Buren was either gay or liked to wear women's corsets? Thomas Jefferson's 1800 campaign alleging John Adams was a hermaphrodite? William Randolph Hearst's Yellow Journalism? Nixon's Plumbers and "ratfuckers?" Lyndon Johnson mucking about with the 1968 campaign? Joe Kennedy's shenanigans in JFK's various campaigns - everything from payoffs to ballot-stuffing?We went from a handshake refusal to where we are today. I feel like at least some of the feeling things have gotten much worse is legit.That's interesting. I guess that was just my perception. It's normal that every generation feels like things worsen with time. For example, they don't make music like they used to.I hear you @razgueado but don't you agree that debates in recent years have gotten exponentially sensational. It's probably necessary given the state of our collective ADHD.Not exponentially, and not proportionally. What has changed are society's expectations. The transformation begins with the first televised presidential debate - which is not what you think it is. The first televised presidential debate took place in 1956, but didn't involve the actual candidates. Eleanor Roosevelt stood in for Adlai Stevenson, and Maine Senator Margaret Chase Smith for Dwight Eisenhower. Smith took great care to prepare for the debate, from content to appearance.
Roosevelt spoke the most, but Smith looked the best and got the zinger at the end, and Roosevelt was so pissed about it that she refused to shake hands with Smith.
Four years later, John Kennedy learned the lesson, Nixon didn't. Nixon was the better debater and the more seasoned politician, but took no care about his appearance. If you read the transcript of the debate, it's pretty clear Nixon won. But he looked like s**t, so guess who viewers thought won the debate?
From there it's been one long, steady race to the bottom, until we get to Donald Trump. And here's the thing about Trump - he didn't make America bitterly divided, he exposed the division, and the simmering resentment, for what it was. That he did it like a WWE huckster was a direct result of the influence of broadcast media. Trump fit right into what broadcast media - including the internet - as a whole had become. He ripped away the last vestiges of the rosy illusion of gentility in politics. Americans as a whole had abandoned the notion of gentility sometime around 1968, but the notion of "gravitas" still held sway over presidential politics, until Trump v. Clinton. Neither candidate had any gravitas. Hillary tried desperately to project some, always failing. Trump didn't bother to try. He knew it as an antiquated notion. He was a real estate hustler, a casino investor, a beauty pageant promoter, a WWE promoter, and a reality tv star. He knew for certain what the electorate valued, and gravitas was no longer it. Americans, regardless of political persuasion, wanted a streetlight. Trump gave it to them.
What is so much worse now?
I'd suggest it's actually gotten better, at least better than the 19th century. In the 1800s you could get away with almost anything. Now? Can you imagine what would happen if Donald Trump asserted someone was a hermaphrodite? The lawsuits? The investigations? The interminable news cycles? Look at what Hillary's "Basket of deplorables" got her.
Post by: LuvTooGolf on August 23, 2023, 07:47:56 PM
Okay, but compared to what? J. Edgar Hoover being the source of rumors that Adlai Stevenson was gay? The Cuomo campaign against Ed Koch posting ads saying "Vote for Cuomo, not the homo"? Davy Crockett's implication that Martin Van Buren was either gay or liked to wear women's corsets? Thomas Jefferson's 1800 campaign alleging John Adams was a hermaphrodite? William Randolph Hearst's Yellow Journalism?We went from a handshake refusal to where we are today. I feel like at least some of the feeling things have gotten much worse is legit.That's interesting. I guess that was just my perception. It's normal that every generation feels like things worsen with time. For example, they don't make music like they used to.I hear you @razgueado but don't you agree that debates in recent years have gotten exponentially sensational. It's probably necessary given the state of our collective ADHD.Not exponentially, and not proportionally. What has changed are society's expectations. The transformation begins with the first televised presidential debate - which is not what you think it is. The first televised presidential debate took place in 1956, but didn't involve the actual candidates. Eleanor Roosevelt stood in for Adlai Stevenson, and Maine Senator Margaret Chase Smith for Dwight Eisenhower. Smith took great care to prepare for the debate, from content to appearance.
Roosevelt spoke the most, but Smith looked the best and got the zinger at the end, and Roosevelt was so pissed about it that she refused to shake hands with Smith.
Four years later, John Kennedy learned the lesson, Nixon didn't. Nixon was the better debater and the more seasoned politician, but took no care about his appearance. If you read the transcript of the debate, it's pretty clear Nixon won. But he looked like s**t, so guess who viewers thought won the debate?
From there it's been one long, steady race to the bottom, until we get to Donald Trump. And here's the thing about Trump - he didn't make America bitterly divided, he exposed the division, and the simmering resentment, for what it was. That he did it like a WWE huckster was a direct result of the influence of broadcast media. Trump fit right into what broadcast media - including the internet - as a whole had become. He ripped away the last vestiges of the rosy illusion of gentility in politics. Americans as a whole had abandoned the notion of gentility sometime around 1968, but the notion of "gravitas" still held sway over presidential politics, until Trump v. Clinton. Neither candidate had any gravitas. Hillary tried desperately to project some, always failing. Trump didn't bother to try. He knew it as an antiquated notion. He was a real estate hustler, a casino investor, a beauty pageant promoter, a WWE promoter, and a reality tv star. He knew for certain what the electorate valued, and gravitas was no longer it. Americans, regardless of political persuasion, wanted a streetlight. Trump gave it to them.
What is so much worse now?
I'd suggest it's actually gotten better, at least better than the 19th century. In the 1800s you could get away with almost anything. Now? Can you imagine what would happen if Donald Trump asserted someone was a hermaphrodite? The lawsuits? The investigations? The interminable news cycles? Look at what Hillary's "Basket of deplorables" got her.
If Drumpf called someone a hermaphrodite, Democrats would call it Wednesday and Republicans would start printing hats and t-shirts with the quote on it.
I'm sorry, but I just can't agree with you on this one.
Post by: razgueado on August 23, 2023, 07:57:00 PM
Nor history. ;-)Okay, but compared to what? J. Edgar Hoover being the source of rumors that Adlai Stevenson was gay? The Cuomo campaign against Ed Koch posting ads saying "Vote for Cuomo, not the homo"? Davy Crockett's implication that Martin Van Buren was either gay or liked to wear women's corsets? Thomas Jefferson's 1800 campaign alleging John Adams was a hermaphrodite? William Randolph Hearst's Yellow Journalism?We went from a handshake refusal to where we are today. I feel like at least some of the feeling things have gotten much worse is legit.That's interesting. I guess that was just my perception. It's normal that every generation feels like things worsen with time. For example, they don't make music like they used to.I hear you @razgueado but don't you agree that debates in recent years have gotten exponentially sensational. It's probably necessary given the state of our collective ADHD.Not exponentially, and not proportionally. What has changed are society's expectations. The transformation begins with the first televised presidential debate - which is not what you think it is. The first televised presidential debate took place in 1956, but didn't involve the actual candidates. Eleanor Roosevelt stood in for Adlai Stevenson, and Maine Senator Margaret Chase Smith for Dwight Eisenhower. Smith took great care to prepare for the debate, from content to appearance.
Roosevelt spoke the most, but Smith looked the best and got the zinger at the end, and Roosevelt was so pissed about it that she refused to shake hands with Smith.
Four years later, John Kennedy learned the lesson, Nixon didn't. Nixon was the better debater and the more seasoned politician, but took no care about his appearance. If you read the transcript of the debate, it's pretty clear Nixon won. But he looked like s**t, so guess who viewers thought won the debate?
From there it's been one long, steady race to the bottom, until we get to Donald Trump. And here's the thing about Trump - he didn't make America bitterly divided, he exposed the division, and the simmering resentment, for what it was. That he did it like a WWE huckster was a direct result of the influence of broadcast media. Trump fit right into what broadcast media - including the internet - as a whole had become. He ripped away the last vestiges of the rosy illusion of gentility in politics. Americans as a whole had abandoned the notion of gentility sometime around 1968, but the notion of "gravitas" still held sway over presidential politics, until Trump v. Clinton. Neither candidate had any gravitas. Hillary tried desperately to project some, always failing. Trump didn't bother to try. He knew it as an antiquated notion. He was a real estate hustler, a casino investor, a beauty pageant promoter, a WWE promoter, and a reality tv star. He knew for certain what the electorate valued, and gravitas was no longer it. Americans, regardless of political persuasion, wanted a streetlight. Trump gave it to them.
What is so much worse now?
I'd suggest it's actually gotten better, at least better than the 19th century. In the 1800s you could get away with almost anything. Now? Can you imagine what would happen if Donald Trump asserted someone was a hermaphrodite? The lawsuits? The investigations? The interminable news cycles? Look at what Hillary's "Basket of deplorables" got her.
If Drumpf called someone a hermaphrodite, Democrats would call it Wednesday and Republicans would start printing hats and t-shirts with the quote on it.
I'm sorry, but I just can't agree with you on this one.
Post by: bluecollar on August 23, 2023, 08:02:26 PM
Post by: LuvTooGolf on August 23, 2023, 08:05:36 PM
Sure, something like that.Nor history. ;-)Okay, but compared to what? J. Edgar Hoover being the source of rumors that Adlai Stevenson was gay? The Cuomo campaign against Ed Koch posting ads saying "Vote for Cuomo, not the homo"? Davy Crockett's implication that Martin Van Buren was either gay or liked to wear women's corsets? Thomas Jefferson's 1800 campaign alleging John Adams was a hermaphrodite? William Randolph Hearst's Yellow Journalism?We went from a handshake refusal to where we are today. I feel like at least some of the feeling things have gotten much worse is legit.That's interesting. I guess that was just my perception. It's normal that every generation feels like things worsen with time. For example, they don't make music like they used to.I hear you @razgueado but don't you agree that debates in recent years have gotten exponentially sensational. It's probably necessary given the state of our collective ADHD.Not exponentially, and not proportionally. What has changed are society's expectations. The transformation begins with the first televised presidential debate - which is not what you think it is. The first televised presidential debate took place in 1956, but didn't involve the actual candidates. Eleanor Roosevelt stood in for Adlai Stevenson, and Maine Senator Margaret Chase Smith for Dwight Eisenhower. Smith took great care to prepare for the debate, from content to appearance.
Roosevelt spoke the most, but Smith looked the best and got the zinger at the end, and Roosevelt was so pissed about it that she refused to shake hands with Smith.
Four years later, John Kennedy learned the lesson, Nixon didn't. Nixon was the better debater and the more seasoned politician, but took no care about his appearance. If you read the transcript of the debate, it's pretty clear Nixon won. But he looked like s**t, so guess who viewers thought won the debate?
From there it's been one long, steady race to the bottom, until we get to Donald Trump. And here's the thing about Trump - he didn't make America bitterly divided, he exposed the division, and the simmering resentment, for what it was. That he did it like a WWE huckster was a direct result of the influence of broadcast media. Trump fit right into what broadcast media - including the internet - as a whole had become. He ripped away the last vestiges of the rosy illusion of gentility in politics. Americans as a whole had abandoned the notion of gentility sometime around 1968, but the notion of "gravitas" still held sway over presidential politics, until Trump v. Clinton. Neither candidate had any gravitas. Hillary tried desperately to project some, always failing. Trump didn't bother to try. He knew it as an antiquated notion. He was a real estate hustler, a casino investor, a beauty pageant promoter, a WWE promoter, and a reality tv star. He knew for certain what the electorate valued, and gravitas was no longer it. Americans, regardless of political persuasion, wanted a streetlight. Trump gave it to them.
What is so much worse now?
I'd suggest it's actually gotten better, at least better than the 19th century. In the 1800s you could get away with almost anything. Now? Can you imagine what would happen if Donald Trump asserted someone was a hermaphrodite? The lawsuits? The investigations? The interminable news cycles? Look at what Hillary's "Basket of deplorables" got her.
If Drumpf called someone a hermaphrodite, Democrats would call it Wednesday and Republicans would start printing hats and t-shirts with the quote on it.
I'm sorry, but I just can't agree with you on this one.
Post by: LuvTooGolf on August 23, 2023, 09:11:23 PM
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230824/17fffb14564ca9d702be69f14112733e.jpg)