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[Travellin Dave]

@Mr. Bean....Don't know if you saw my post last night, but welcome to the ACC!  Not only are we going to play our regularly scheduled game, many are projecting a rematch in the ACC championship game.  We may get to play twice!!!

[razgueado]

Today is Thursday, July 30, the 212th day of 2020. There are 154 days left in the year.


Today’s Highlight in History:

...
In 1956, President Dwight D. Eisenhower signed a measure making “In God We Trust” the national motto, replacing “E Pluribus Unum” (Out of many, one).

Very interesting. I'd vote to change it back.

Amen to that.

In that case, I take it back. . No but seriously, I'm God fearing and all but I feel like this contradicts separation of church and state.

LALTS, you think?

"Separation of Church and State" is a descriptor of a legal concept, not a law that can be contradicted or violated.  What you mean to suggest, perhaps, is that it "violates the establishment clause." But the Supreme Court has long held that it doesn't, which is to say, the SCOTUS says you're both wrong.  Not that I particularly care, mind you. 

Also, while it didn't become the national motto until 1956, it first started appearing on the money in 1864, and originates, of course, in the fourth verse of the national anthem, ca 1814.

I loves me a good edumaction. A lot of things happened in 1814, that doesn't make them correct. So now, GFY.

Also, you should know that I was kneeling while reading your post.

Why?  Were you nauseated or something?

No, being historical doesn't make things correct.  But when the SCOTUS says something is constitutional, it is.

Unless Trumpf disagrees...

Or people against abortion.

Or people who support gun control.

"When in the course of human events, people REALLY don't want standard background checks..."

Well, if terminating a human heartbeat is a constitutionally protected private decision of a mother, then what kind of gun and how many I buy is nunya as well.

[Travellin Dave]

Speaking of which, I have my eye on a Springfield 1911 Ronin...

[LuvTooGolf]

Today is Thursday, July 30, the 212th day of 2020. There are 154 days left in the year.


Today’s Highlight in History:

...
In 1956, President Dwight D. Eisenhower signed a measure making “In God We Trust” the national motto, replacing “E Pluribus Unum” (Out of many, one).

Very interesting. I'd vote to change it back.

Amen to that.

In that case, I take it back. . No but seriously, I'm God fearing and all but I feel like this contradicts separation of church and state.

LALTS, you think?

"Separation of Church and State" is a descriptor of a legal concept, not a law that can be violated.  What you mean to suggest, perhaps, is that it "violates the establishment clause." But the Supreme Court has long held that it doesn't, which is to say, the SCOTUS says you're both wrong.  Not that I particularly care, mind you. 

Also, while it didn't become the national motto until 1956, it first started appearing on the money in 1864, and originates, of course, in the fourth verse of the national anthem, ca 1814.

Mr. Raz bursts forth as a font of historical info.
Good morning sir!

I just get annoyed when people make pat pronouncements about things when they haven't looked at the history or legal precedent or whatever.  My fellow Christians have historically been really bad about doing this, but progressive Democrats have caught right up to them in the past three decades.

"In God We Trust" didn't "replace" E Pluribus Unum.  That was never officially a motto of the United States.

In other words, ClemsonDave posted #FakeNews ?

Mine was more a philosophical wish that separation of church and state was a concept that was actually followed. I'm not naive enough to think this will ever happen.

And while we're at it, let's get churches, the NFL and Amazon to actually pay taxes.

What taxes do you think churches don't pay?

All the ones the IRS has exempted them from?

Sure...and they are?

It's okay, general categories will do.  I won't make you be overly specific.

In general - federal, state, local income and property.

By the way, LOLing at "won't make you be overly specific".

In general, Federal is a categorical distinguisher, not a type of tax.  Types of federal tax would include "income taxes," "property taxes," "payroll taxes," "capital gains taxes," "estate taxes," and a few other lesser-known and infrequently used types.  There is no federal sales tax, nor property tax. 

The only federal tax that Churches are exempt from is income tax, and the exemption doesn't cover income unrelated to direct church ministry.  Basically, what goes in the offering plate or gets provided to the church via a fundraiser is exempt from federal tax.  Income from unrelated business is not exempt.  Churches are not exempt from any other type of federal taxes, with the exception that official clergy meeting some specific criteria get to skip some of the payroll taxes (Social Security), but they also don't get the benefit of those either.  So that's a wash.

In this regard, churches are no different than any other charitable organization, or any other non-profit entity.  So...if you're going to tax churches, then you also have to tax the NAACP, the United Way, March of Dimes, MDA, yadda, yadda, yadda.  And the reason that we don't tax those entities is twofold - they provide a service to the community, and there isn't a lot of income left over to tax.  It'll cost more to impose and collect the taxes than will be gained.

State property tax exemptions only go so far as well, and if you don't think those taxes are fair then you're just not a progressive.  Imposing property taxes on churches fails to recognize that they are non-profit organizations.  So it is a frequent case that the property the church sits on is more valuable than the income-producing capability of the organization (remember, churches can only produce income so many ways before running into Unrelated Business taxation).  So property taxes on churches would inherently be regressive in nature.

So...what great national windfall are you expecting to collect by taxing charitable non-profits?

Yes, federal is a categorical distinguisher. You DID ask for general categories, did you not?

And while churches provide a service to the community, I would counter that meth dealers do as well, but I wouldn't consider either of them good services.

Finally, I don't remember saying we would be solving the debt crisis or anything here. Merely that they, sports leagues like the NFL and huge corporations that take in billions a year in profit should be forced to pay taxes, like the rest of us.

[FloridaDean]

ecstasy

[LuvTooGolf]

Speaking of which, I have my eye on a Springfield 1911 Ronin...

I think using a gun to kill a fetus is double jeopardy, right? I don't know, I never saw that Tommy Lee Jones movie.

[FloridaDean]

TAKING IT GENTLY

You are so beautiful
and desirable; creating
a raging fire in my loins.
I fight the urge to rush
and pounce on you,
but I cannot. You deserve
respect, understanding, and patience,
You are a real goddess
not some object to be pounced
on and left high and dry
as your lover satisfies his selfishness.
I listen to you, hear your
preferences and desires to
be fucked in special ways;
just hearing how you want
to share is such a turn-on.
It is not fair to either
of us to rush down the
erotic highway and not get
the TOTAL pleasure from
our journey---shall we begin
our slow and gentle journey?

[LuvTooGolf]

TAKING IT GENTLY

You are so beautiful
and desirable; creating
a raging fire in my loins.
I fight the urge to rush
and pounce on you,
but I cannot. You deserve
respect, understanding, and patience,
You are a real goddess
not some object to be pounced
on and left high and dry
as your lover satisfies his selfishness.
I listen to you, hear your
preferences and desires to
be fucked in special ways;
just hearing how you want
to share is such a turn-on.
It is not fair to either
of us to rush down the
erotic highway and not get
the TOTAL pleasure from
our journey---shall we begin
our slow and gentle journey?

Tony - still want to avoid politics?

[A Friend of Charlie]

Today is Thursday, July 30, the 212th day of 2020. There are 154 days left in the year.


Today’s Highlight in History:

...
In 1956, President Dwight D. Eisenhower signed a measure making “In God We Trust” the national motto, replacing “E Pluribus Unum” (Out of many, one).

Very interesting. I'd vote to change it back.

Amen to that.

In that case, I take it back. . No but seriously, I'm God fearing and all but I feel like this contradicts separation of church and state.

LALTS, you think?

"Separation of Church and State" is a descriptor of a legal concept, not a law that can be violated.  What you mean to suggest, perhaps, is that it "violates the establishment clause." But the Supreme Court has long held that it doesn't, which is to say, the SCOTUS says you're both wrong.  Not that I particularly care, mind you. 

Also, while it didn't become the national motto until 1956, it first started appearing on the money in 1864, and originates, of course, in the fourth verse of the national anthem, ca 1814.

Mr. Raz bursts forth as a font of historical info.
Good morning sir!

I just get annoyed when people make pat pronouncements about things when they haven't looked at the history or legal precedent or whatever.  My fellow Christians have historically been really bad about doing this, but progressive Democrats have caught right up to them in the past three decades.

"In God We Trust" didn't "replace" E Pluribus Unum.  That was never officially a motto of the United States.

In other words, ClemsonDave posted #FakeNews ?

Mine was more a philosophical wish that separation of church and state was a concept that was actually followed. I'm not naive enough to think this will ever happen.

And while we're at it, let's get churches, the NFL and Amazon to actually pay taxes.

What taxes do you think churches don't pay?

Property tax, federal income tax, state income tax, sales tax...

Please correct me.

[Travellin Dave]

Today is Thursday, July 30, the 212th day of 2020. There are 154 days left in the year.


Today’s Highlight in History:

...
In 1956, President Dwight D. Eisenhower signed a measure making “In God We Trust” the national motto, replacing “E Pluribus Unum” (Out of many, one).

Very interesting. I'd vote to change it back.

Amen to that.

In that case, I take it back. . No but seriously, I'm God fearing and all but I feel like this contradicts separation of church and state.

LALTS, you think?

"Separation of Church and State" is a descriptor of a legal concept, not a law that can be violated.  What you mean to suggest, perhaps, is that it "violates the establishment clause." But the Supreme Court has long held that it doesn't, which is to say, the SCOTUS says you're both wrong.  Not that I particularly care, mind you. 

Also, while it didn't become the national motto until 1956, it first started appearing on the money in 1864, and originates, of course, in the fourth verse of the national anthem, ca 1814.

Mr. Raz bursts forth as a font of historical info.
Good morning sir!

I just get annoyed when people make pat pronouncements about things when they haven't looked at the history or legal precedent or whatever.  My fellow Christians have historically been really bad about doing this, but progressive Democrats have caught right up to them in the past three decades.

"In God We Trust" didn't "replace" E Pluribus Unum.  That was never officially a motto of the United States.

In other words, ClemsonDave posted #FakeNews ?

Mine was more a philosophical wish that separation of church and state was a concept that was actually followed. I'm not naive enough to think this will ever happen.

And while we're at it, let's get churches, the NFL and Amazon to actually pay taxes.

What taxes do you think churches don't pay?

All the ones the IRS has exempted them from?

Sure...and they are?

It's okay, general categories will do.  I won't make you be overly specific.

In general - federal, state, local income and property.

By the way, LOLing at "won't make you be overly specific".

In general, Federal is a categorical distinguisher, not a type of tax.  Types of federal tax would include "income taxes," "property taxes," "payroll taxes," "capital gains taxes," "estate taxes," and a few other lesser-known and infrequently used types.  There is no federal sales tax, nor property tax. 

The only federal tax that Churches are exempt from is income tax, and the exemption doesn't cover income unrelated to direct church ministry.  Basically, what goes in the offering plate or gets provided to the church via a fundraiser is exempt from federal tax.  Income from unrelated business is not exempt.  Churches are not exempt from any other type of federal taxes, with the exception that official clergy meeting some specific criteria get to skip some of the payroll taxes (Social Security), but they also don't get the benefit of those either.  So that's a wash.

In this regard, churches are no different than any other charitable organization, or any other non-profit entity.  So...if you're going to tax churches, then you also have to tax the NAACP, the United Way, March of Dimes, MDA, yadda, yadda, yadda.  And the reason that we don't tax those entities is twofold - they provide a service to the community, and there isn't a lot of income left over to tax.  It'll cost more to impose and collect the taxes than will be gained.

State property tax exemptions only go so far as well, and if you don't think those taxes are fair then you're just not a progressive.  Imposing property taxes on churches fails to recognize that they are non-profit organizations.  So it is a frequent case that the property the church sits on is more valuable than the income-producing capability of the organization (remember, churches can only produce income so many ways before running into Unrelated Business taxation).  So property taxes on churches would inherently be regressive in nature.

So...what great national windfall are you expecting to collect by taxing charitable non-profits?

Yes, federal is a categorical distinguisher. You DID ask for general categories, did you not?

And while churches provide a service to the community, I would counter that meth dealers do as well, but I wouldn't consider either of them good services.

Finally, I don't remember saying we would be solving the debt crisis or anything here. Merely that they, sports leagues like the NFL and huge corporations that take in billions a year in profit should be forced to pay taxes, like the rest of us.

pretty sure those Meth dealers are tax exempt as well.

[FloridaDean]

going to replace the spikes in my golf shoes and load my clubs in the truck.
bringing a Paragas Black and coffee with me, then hit the hottub.
see you all tomorrow.

[LuvTooGolf]

going to replace the spikes in my golf shoes and load my clubs in the truck.
bringing a Paragas Black and coffee with me, then hit the hottub.
see you all tomorrow.

Later, Deano.

[LuvTooGolf]

Today is Thursday, July 30, the 212th day of 2020. There are 154 days left in the year.


Today’s Highlight in History:

...
In 1956, President Dwight D. Eisenhower signed a measure making “In God We Trust” the national motto, replacing “E Pluribus Unum” (Out of many, one).

Very interesting. I'd vote to change it back.

Amen to that.

In that case, I take it back. . No but seriously, I'm God fearing and all but I feel like this contradicts separation of church and state.

LALTS, you think?

"Separation of Church and State" is a descriptor of a legal concept, not a law that can be violated.  What you mean to suggest, perhaps, is that it "violates the establishment clause." But the Supreme Court has long held that it doesn't, which is to say, the SCOTUS says you're both wrong.  Not that I particularly care, mind you. 

Also, while it didn't become the national motto until 1956, it first started appearing on the money in 1864, and originates, of course, in the fourth verse of the national anthem, ca 1814.

Mr. Raz bursts forth as a font of historical info.
Good morning sir!

I just get annoyed when people make pat pronouncements about things when they haven't looked at the history or legal precedent or whatever.  My fellow Christians have historically been really bad about doing this, but progressive Democrats have caught right up to them in the past three decades.

"In God We Trust" didn't "replace" E Pluribus Unum.  That was never officially a motto of the United States.

In other words, ClemsonDave posted #FakeNews ?

Mine was more a philosophical wish that separation of church and state was a concept that was actually followed. I'm not naive enough to think this will ever happen.

And while we're at it, let's get churches, the NFL and Amazon to actually pay taxes.

What taxes do you think churches don't pay?

Property tax, federal income tax, state income tax, sales tax...

Please correct me.

Careful what you wish for...

[LuvTooGolf]

Today is Thursday, July 30, the 212th day of 2020. There are 154 days left in the year.


Today’s Highlight in History:

...
In 1956, President Dwight D. Eisenhower signed a measure making “In God We Trust” the national motto, replacing “E Pluribus Unum” (Out of many, one).

Very interesting. I'd vote to change it back.

Amen to that.

In that case, I take it back. . No but seriously, I'm God fearing and all but I feel like this contradicts separation of church and state.

LALTS, you think?

"Separation of Church and State" is a descriptor of a legal concept, not a law that can be violated.  What you mean to suggest, perhaps, is that it "violates the establishment clause." But the Supreme Court has long held that it doesn't, which is to say, the SCOTUS says you're both wrong.  Not that I particularly care, mind you. 

Also, while it didn't become the national motto until 1956, it first started appearing on the money in 1864, and originates, of course, in the fourth verse of the national anthem, ca 1814.

Mr. Raz bursts forth as a font of historical info.
Good morning sir!

I just get annoyed when people make pat pronouncements about things when they haven't looked at the history or legal precedent or whatever.  My fellow Christians have historically been really bad about doing this, but progressive Democrats have caught right up to them in the past three decades.

"In God We Trust" didn't "replace" E Pluribus Unum.  That was never officially a motto of the United States.

In other words, ClemsonDave posted #FakeNews ?

Mine was more a philosophical wish that separation of church and state was a concept that was actually followed. I'm not naive enough to think this will ever happen.

And while we're at it, let's get churches, the NFL and Amazon to actually pay taxes.

What taxes do you think churches don't pay?

All the ones the IRS has exempted them from?

Sure...and they are?

It's okay, general categories will do.  I won't make you be overly specific.

In general - federal, state, local income and property.

By the way, LOLing at "won't make you be overly specific".

In general, Federal is a categorical distinguisher, not a type of tax.  Types of federal tax would include "income taxes," "property taxes," "payroll taxes," "capital gains taxes," "estate taxes," and a few other lesser-known and infrequently used types.  There is no federal sales tax, nor property tax. 

The only federal tax that Churches are exempt from is income tax, and the exemption doesn't cover income unrelated to direct church ministry.  Basically, what goes in the offering plate or gets provided to the church via a fundraiser is exempt from federal tax.  Income from unrelated business is not exempt.  Churches are not exempt from any other type of federal taxes, with the exception that official clergy meeting some specific criteria get to skip some of the payroll taxes (Social Security), but they also don't get the benefit of those either.  So that's a wash.

In this regard, churches are no different than any other charitable organization, or any other non-profit entity.  So...if you're going to tax churches, then you also have to tax the NAACP, the United Way, March of Dimes, MDA, yadda, yadda, yadda.  And the reason that we don't tax those entities is twofold - they provide a service to the community, and there isn't a lot of income left over to tax.  It'll cost more to impose and collect the taxes than will be gained.

State property tax exemptions only go so far as well, and if you don't think those taxes are fair then you're just not a progressive.  Imposing property taxes on churches fails to recognize that they are non-profit organizations.  So it is a frequent case that the property the church sits on is more valuable than the income-producing capability of the organization (remember, churches can only produce income so many ways before running into Unrelated Business taxation).  So property taxes on churches would inherently be regressive in nature.

So...what great national windfall are you expecting to collect by taxing charitable non-profits?

Yes, federal is a categorical distinguisher. You DID ask for general categories, did you not?

And while churches provide a service to the community, I would counter that meth dealers do as well, but I wouldn't consider either of them good services.

Finally, I don't remember saying we would be solving the debt crisis or anything here. Merely that they, sports leagues like the NFL and huge corporations that take in billions a year in profit should be forced to pay taxes, like the rest of us.

pretty sure those Meth dealers are tax exempt as well.

One problem at a time.

[Travellin Dave]

As per Mr. Oy's suggestion, HVC 500 Anniv.