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[razgueado]

They were sued, and Cuba lost.  Now, on the other hand, shouldn't the government of Cuba get sued for stealing brand names, factories, and property both intellectual and real that the Communists stole from their owners in the early 60's?  Theft is theft, isn't it?

So, it's a little stickier than just Altadis.

Which is why we need it in reality show form   Cut out all the legal mumbo jumbo and courtroom stuff and just show us the yelling and screaming and sex.

They did.  You missed it.  It was called "Desperate Housewives."

[jswaykos]

Let's talk cigars!  What deals have you found on the various Internet sites today?

Time to smoke this Lancero I picked up from a sampler, operation smoke down continues.

Hey, Chip. Only had the Std. Reserve, not the Habana... and that was a pretty mild smoke, but decent flavor.

Give us the verdict.

Mild for sure, I really like the ISOKW's much better.

Apples and oranges, as you know, not even the same company.  Can you imagine the legal battles there'd be if the embargo were ever lifted?!

"When" is the key word!

It'll be a shit show, that's for sure.  Morning/afternoon, Ken!

I think it will be very interesting, actually! Hope it does not put too many cigar companies out of biz, but market economy and all. Morning, Joe! (afternoon here)

I mean, would you lose any sleep if, say, Altadis struggled because of it?  They're knowingly "imitating" brands that were made famous because of their Cuban heritage.  But I'd bet they have just as much money if not more than Altadis to fight it.  So who'd win?  I'd follow that battle, for sure.  The good news is that this sort of thing wouldn't just happen overnight so you'd have plenty of opportunity to stock your humidors for the end times.

Cuba has been losing all the legal battles during the embargo.  I haven't looked at all the legal foundations of that, so I don't know if that might change when the embargo lifts.  Shit storm is right though.

Is there any precedent for such a thing?  I mean... they both own the name, right?  Would it come down to who had it first?  Altadis did, here.  Would Cuba be considered a 'new' country as if it were Day 1 of their existence?  Or would their copyrights and whatnot be retroactive? And does Altadis even sell their Montecristo anywhere else in the world?  Or only here in America, since the Cuban brand isn't even recognized because of the embargo?

And can we turn it in to a reality show for easy viewing/understanding?

  Among the reasons Cuba has lost its lawsuits is that its entire cigar industry is built on assets that were seized from private owners.  Judges in countries under the rule of law have a real problem with plaintiffs who want to invoke the rule of law outside their borders while historically and actively dismissing the rule of law within their borders.

I suppose I can understand that.  "Hey, Altadis is stealing our name!"  Hey, fucker, you stole it, too.  Zip it.  Case dismissed.

[razgueado]

Among the reasons Cuba has lost its lawsuits is that its entire cigar industry is built on assets that were seized from private owners.  Judges in countries under the rule of law have a real problem with plaintiffs who want to invoke the rule of law outside their borders while historically and actively dismissing the rule of law within their borders.

I suppose I can understand that.  "Hey, Altadis is stealing our name!"  Hey, fucker, you stole it, too.  Zip it.  Case dismissed.

Which, as I'm looking at what I can find on the case law, is pretty much it.  That, and the legal doctrine that says "No one in the US is going to think a cigar for sale in the US with the name 'Cohiba' is from Cuba, because everyone knows Cuban cigars can't be sold in the US.

This, of course, sounds utterly ridiculous, but has a sort of perverse logic. 

[flip from jersey]

Among the reasons Cuba has lost its lawsuits is that its entire cigar industry is built on assets that were seized from private owners.  Judges in countries under the rule of law have a real problem with plaintiffs who want to invoke the rule of law outside their borders while historically and actively dismissing the rule of law within their borders.

I suppose I can understand that.  "Hey, Altadis is stealing our name!"  Hey, fucker, you stole it, too.  Zip it.  Case dismissed.

Which, as I'm looking at what I can find on the case law, is pretty much it.  That, and the legal doctrine that says "No one in the US is going to think a cigar for sale in the US with the name 'Cohiba' is from Cuba, because everyone knows Cuban cigars can't be sold in the US.

This, of course, sounds utterly ridiculous, but has a sort of perverse logic.

No, we legally buy Cohiba cigars, from the Dominican Republic.  Have you seen the new Bacardi commercial, how they left Cuba, when the state took over the rum distilleries, and went elsewhere to make their families rum

[flip from jersey]

Let's talk cigars!  What deals have you found on the various Internet sites today?

Time to smoke this Lancero I picked up from a sampler, operation smoke down continues.

Hey, Chip. Only had the Std. Reserve, not the Habana... and that was a pretty mild smoke, but decent flavor.

Give us the verdict.

Mild for sure, I really like the ISOKW's much better.

Apples and oranges, as you know, not even the same company.  Can you imagine the legal battles there'd be if the embargo were ever lifted?!

"When" is the key word!

It'll be a shit show, that's for sure.  Morning/afternoon, Ken!

I think it will be very interesting, actually! Hope it does not put too many cigar companies out of biz, but market economy and all. Morning, Joe! (afternoon here)

I mean, would you lose any sleep if, say, Altadis struggled because of it?  They're knowingly "imitating" brands that were made famous because of their Cuban heritage.  But I'd bet they have just as much money if not more than Altadis to fight it.  So who'd win?  I'd follow that battle, for sure.  The good news is that this sort of thing wouldn't just happen overnight so you'd have plenty of opportunity to stock your humidors for the end times.

Cuba has been losing all the legal battles during the embargo.  I haven't looked at all the legal foundations of that, so I don't know if that might change when the embargo lifts.  Shit storm is right though.

Is there any precedent for such a thing?  I mean... they both own the name, right?  Would it come down to who had it first?  Altadis did, here.  Would Cuba be considered a 'new' country as if it were Day 1 of their existence?  Or would their copyrights and whatnot be retroactive? And does Altadis even sell their Montecristo anywhere else in the world?  Or only here in America, since the Cuban brand isn't even recognized because of the embargo?

And can we turn it in to a reality show for easy viewing/understanding?

  Among the reasons Cuba has lost its lawsuits is that its entire cigar industry is built on assets that were seized from private owners.  Judges in countries under the rule of law have a real problem with plaintiffs who want to invoke the rule of law outside their borders while historically and actively dismissing the rule of law within their borders.

I suppose I can understand that.  "Hey, Altadis is stealing our name!"  Hey, fucker, you stole it, too.  Zip it.  Case dismissed.

  Swedish Match, owns the copyright to a lot of the Cuban names here in the United States.  One of the reasons they bought a large internet cigar reseller called Cigars International...

[glassken]

Let's talk cigars!  What deals have you found on the various Internet sites today?

Time to smoke this Lancero I picked up from a sampler, operation smoke down continues.

Hey, Chip. Only had the Std. Reserve, not the Habana... and that was a pretty mild smoke, but decent flavor.

Give us the verdict.

Mild for sure, I really like the ISOKW's much better.

Apples and oranges, as you know, not even the same company.  Can you imagine the legal battles there'd be if the embargo were ever lifted?!

"When" is the key word!

It'll be a shit show, that's for sure.  Morning/afternoon, Ken!

I think it will be very interesting, actually! Hope it does not put too many cigar companies out of biz, but market economy and all. Morning, Joe! (afternoon here)

I mean, would you lose any sleep if, say, Altadis struggled because of it?  They're knowingly "imitating" brands that were made famous because of their Cuban heritage.  But I'd bet they have just as much money if not more than Altadis to fight it.  So who'd win?  I'd follow that battle, for sure.  The good news is that this sort of thing wouldn't just happen overnight so you'd have plenty of opportunity to stock your humidors for the end times.

No offense to people who like the cigars that have Cuban names, but I wish everyone of them would get sued, and go out of business! Minus, maybe San Cristobal's, and a couple other. Altadis, and General used famous Cuban cigar trademarks, and made them with non-cuban leaf, and knew they could get away with it, because no one will side with communist Cuba. I wish they would get sued, and have to pay Cuba for the license to use the name. Only if the money went to the people--to buy toilet paper for instance!

-- They were sued, and Cuba lost.  Now, on the other hand, shouldn't the government of Cuba get sued for stealing brand names, factories, and property both intellectual and real that the Cuban communists stole from their owners in the early 60's?  Theft is theft, isn't it?

So, it's a little stickier than just Altadis.

That's the spoils of war. as bad as that sounds--it's politics. Anyway, I really wish the embargo would end--and not because of cigars, but it would tremendously help the people living there. Would I feel guilty for having a Cuban cigar? NO! We buy communist made products at wall mart everyday!

[ImNotBlackImMaduro]

Among the reasons Cuba has lost its lawsuits is that its entire cigar industry is built on assets that were seized from private owners.  Judges in countries under the rule of law have a real problem with plaintiffs who want to invoke the rule of law outside their borders while historically and actively dismissing the rule of law within their borders.

I suppose I can understand that.  "Hey, Altadis is stealing our name!"  Hey, fucker, you stole it, too.  Zip it.  Case dismissed.

Which, as I'm looking at what I can find on the case law, is pretty much it.  That, and the legal doctrine that says "No one in the US is going to think a cigar for sale in the US with the name 'Cohiba' is from Cuba, because everyone knows Cuban cigars can't be sold in the US.

This, of course, sounds utterly ridiculous, but has a sort of perverse logic.

No, we legally buy Cohiba cigars, from the Dominican Republic.  Have you seen the new Bacardi commercial, how they left Cuba, when the state took over the rum distilleries, and went elsewhere to make their families rum

  Wish they made it easier by calling them New Montecristos, New Cohibas, like they did with the cities and states.  Nuevo I guess?  So many d-bags saying how cohbia is the best cigar around and when asked where they get them they say any smoke shop.

[jswaykos]

Among the reasons Cuba has lost its lawsuits is that its entire cigar industry is built on assets that were seized from private owners.  Judges in countries under the rule of law have a real problem with plaintiffs who want to invoke the rule of law outside their borders while historically and actively dismissing the rule of law within their borders.

I suppose I can understand that.  "Hey, Altadis is stealing our name!"  Hey, fucker, you stole it, too.  Zip it.  Case dismissed.

Which, as I'm looking at what I can find on the case law, is pretty much it.  That, and the legal doctrine that says "No one in the US is going to think a cigar for sale in the US with the name 'Cohiba' is from Cuba, because everyone knows Cuban cigars can't be sold in the US.

This, of course, sounds utterly ridiculous, but has a sort of perverse logic.

No, we legally buy Cohiba cigars, from the Dominican Republic.  Have you seen the new Bacardi commercial, how they left Cuba, when the state took over the rum distilleries, and went elsewhere to make their families rum

  Wish they made it easier by calling them New Montecristos, New Cohibas, like they did with the cities and states.  Nuevo I guess?  So many d-bags saying how cohbia is the best cigar around and when asked where they get them they say any smoke shop.

Cohiba Nuevo... even sounds kinda cool.  Most overpriced cigar in the history of non-cuban cigars but hey, it sells like crazy so what do I know?  Tough at times to keep in mind that the 'enthusiasts' are the vast minority of the cigar smoking population.

[jswaykos]

Let's talk cigars!  What deals have you found on the various Internet sites today?

Time to smoke this Lancero I picked up from a sampler, operation smoke down continues.

Hey, Chip. Only had the Std. Reserve, not the Habana... and that was a pretty mild smoke, but decent flavor.

Give us the verdict.

Mild for sure, I really like the ISOKW's much better.

Apples and oranges, as you know, not even the same company.  Can you imagine the legal battles there'd be if the embargo were ever lifted?!

"When" is the key word!

It'll be a shit show, that's for sure.  Morning/afternoon, Ken!

I think it will be very interesting, actually! Hope it does not put too many cigar companies out of biz, but market economy and all. Morning, Joe! (afternoon here)

I mean, would you lose any sleep if, say, Altadis struggled because of it?  They're knowingly "imitating" brands that were made famous because of their Cuban heritage.  But I'd bet they have just as much money if not more than Altadis to fight it.  So who'd win?  I'd follow that battle, for sure.  The good news is that this sort of thing wouldn't just happen overnight so you'd have plenty of opportunity to stock your humidors for the end times.

No offense to people who like the cigars that have Cuban names, but I wish everyone of them would get sued, and go out of business! Minus, maybe San Cristobal's, and a couple other. Altadis, and General used famous Cuban cigar trademarks, and made them with non-cuban leaf, and knew they could get away with it, because no one will side with communist Cuba. I wish they would get sued, and have to pay Cuba for the license to use the name. Only if the money went to the people--to buy toilet paper for instance!

-- They were sued, and Cuba lost.  Now, on the other hand, shouldn't the government of Cuba get sued for stealing brand names, factories, and property both intellectual and real that the Cuban communists stole from their owners in the early 60's?  Theft is theft, isn't it?

So, it's a little stickier than just Altadis.

That's the spoils of war. as bad as that sounds--it's politics. Anyway, I really wish the embargo would end--and not because of cigars, but it would tremendously help the people living there. Would I feel guilty for having a Cuban cigar? NO! We buy communist made products at wall mart everyday!

---- Agreed, Ken.  Can't be hypocritical about what I feel about stuff like that... criticize them while smoking their cigars while sitting on a Chinese made patio chair.  Just the cards we're dealt in life, I guess.  The irony is that people HATE any price increase that'd be associated with keeping stuff American made! 

[Wenglish]

Seems like youse guys are talking about stuff. 

So, uh...indeed.

[glassken]

Seems like youse guys are talking about stuff. 

So, uh...indeed.

Hello, Will. Cigars?

[sfish]

Let's talk cigars!  What deals have you found on the various Internet sites today?

Time to smoke this Lancero I picked up from a sampler, operation smoke down continues.

Hey, Chip. Only had the Std. Reserve, not the Habana... and that was a pretty mild smoke, but decent flavor.

Give us the verdict.

Mild for sure, I really like the ISOKW's much better.

Apples and oranges, as you know, not even the same company.  Can you imagine the legal battles there'd be if the embargo were ever lifted?!

"When" is the key word!

It'll be a shit show, that's for sure.  Morning/afternoon, Ken!

I think it will be very interesting, actually! Hope it does not put too many cigar companies out of biz, but market economy and all. Morning, Joe! (afternoon here)

I mean, would you lose any sleep if, say, Altadis struggled because of it?  They're knowingly "imitating" brands that were made famous because of their Cuban heritage.  But I'd bet they have just as much money if not more than Altadis to fight it.  So who'd win?  I'd follow that battle, for sure.  The good news is that this sort of thing wouldn't just happen overnight so you'd have plenty of opportunity to stock your humidors for the end times.

No offense to people who like the cigars that have Cuban names, but I wish everyone of them would get sued, and go out of business! Minus, maybe San Cristobal's, and a couple other. Altadis, and General used famous Cuban cigar trademarks, and made them with non-cuban leaf, and knew they could get away with it, because no one will side with communist Cuba. I wish they would get sued, and have to pay Cuba for the license to use the name. Only if the money went to the people--to buy toilet paper for instance!

-- They were sued, and Cuba lost.  Now, on the other hand, shouldn't the government of Cuba get sued for stealing brand names, factories, and property both intellectual and real that the Cuban communists stole from their owners in the early 60's?  Theft is theft, isn't it?

So, it's a little stickier than just Altadis.

That's the spoils of war. as bad as that sounds--it's politics. Anyway, I really wish the embargo would end--and not because of cigars, but it would tremendously help the people living there. Would I feel guilty for having a Cuban cigar? NO! We buy communist made products at wall mart everyday!

---- Agreed, Ken.  Can't be hypocritical about what I feel about stuff like that... criticize them while smoking their cigars while sitting on a Chinese made patio chair.  Just the cards we're dealt in life, I guess.  The irony is that people HATE any price increase that'd be associated with keeping stuff American made!

You can thank labor unions for that, took away America's ability to compete and keep manufacturing here

[Ogie]

My last order from CI was shipped 2-day priority for free.  Felt like I won the lottery.  But what if I were counting on that 8-day lag time?

[Wenglish]

My last order from CI was shipped 2-day priority for free.  Felt like I won the lottery.  But what if I were counting on that 8-day lag time?

BCP, JR, Famous, etc.  Everyone still gets them to me in 1-3 days.  CI hasn't shipped my Monday jam order yet.

[Wenglish]

Seems like youse guys are talking about stuff. 

So, uh...indeed.

Hello, Will. Cigars?

Pretty much.  Thinking I'll give the Cuchillo Cubanos 40 another shot, see if a few days even out the burn issues.  Think they'll need a little longer, though, so maybe I should grab a QyH Londres Extra.